Monday, October 8, 2007

3.5/4.0 Week 5

So 4.0 wrap up is pretty easy it rained so there was no matches completed. Should make for a lot of makeups on our bye weekend coming up and the following weekend as well.

As far as the 3.5's everyone has posted except for one match (Canyon Creek v. JCC) so here is what happpened:

Flight A:
The Gleneagles/Oak Creek match turned out to be a rout with Oak Creek surprisingly winning 4-1. I guess they still want to be considered a top team. They will still need to win out although they have two somewhat easy matches and then a last weekend match with Canyon Creek that will probably be for their season. Not only do they need to win but win big every week which can be tough with a small roster and teams just playing with no pressure. Gleneagles still sits in a good spot with one loss and can also rack up some good wins before they play High Point in the final weekend. If all goes according to plan it could come down to individual matches played which is always a tough way to have your fate decided.

Flight B:
Garland continued to roll with a 5-0 win over LB Houston/Daly. They continue to get the job done against the lower end teams and will soon have a chance to show just how good they are since they have a makeup match with Stonebridge and a match against a rising Hackberry team this weekend. Stonebridge knocked off Lifetime 3-2 to become the only one loss team in this flight and can really cement a good spot if they can get a win over Garland. Wisdom’s LB Houston team improved to 3-2 to sit right behind the top two teams. The big upset of the weekend was last place Stonebriar knocking off 2-1 Brookhaven and almost dashing their hopes of the playoffs because now they would have to win out against some good teams. Wisdom’s team will meet Stonebridge on 10/21 and that should decide a lot about final positioning for the playoffs.

Flight C:
Greenhill Kayser had a bye this week but by not playing they became the only undefeated team in this flight as Lifetime Fitness was taken out by the upstart B team from Oak Creek, maybe they are attempting to become the A team from Oak Creek. At 2-2 they are still in the mix with the top four teams. Springpark stayed on track with a win over Canyon Creek and hopes to get a chance to make up some ground in the weeks to come but don’t play Kayser’s team for another few weeks in what should be a good match. Oak Ridge had a good win over my guys 4-1 this Sunday. I wasn’t able to make it out but the had a few very convincing wins at line #2 singles and #1 doubles. They improved to 4-1 and can really change the composition of this flight as they have remaining matches with Lifetime and Greenhill/Kayser. Looking at those four teams at the top I truly think they can all beat each other so who knows who will come out of this flight with Oak Creek at #5 they could even vault up to the top 2 after all these team beat each other.


  1. Good to see your sterling pridiction record is still intact.

    " Bazan said...

    After Dewayne's DQ I will change my vote to 3-2 Gleneagles although I think now you all might have more motivation than before.

    October 2, 2007 2:59 PM"

  2. Let the "Hide/Seek" games begin.

    Where was the questionable Gleneagles #1 Singles player this weekend? Guess we may not see him back in action until the playoffs (at least not playing singles)?

    Would have been great to have seen the top two 1st line singles players in the league go head to head this past weekend.

  3. see I must like you guys since by picking you all to lose I actually helped you all. I think Aamer probably just wasn't available I doubt GE would hide him in this match. He isn't questionable although he is a very strong player but did lose last season to one of my players. Aamer hits with a lot of pace off both sides but his fitness levels costs him against stronger players. I would say Ken Fults is about even with him so the Mark v. Ken match was a good matchup on paper. I love that the OC players are ready to get someone DQ'ed now that Ahner is gond. Aamer is pretty safe although I have seen players that have been DQ'ed after playing a season or two if they were self rated. Mark is a tough player and there are not many "true 3.5" players he cannot beat with his skill level. His losses have usually come at the hands of "ringers."

  4. Kenneth Fults told me that their #1 missed his fight from Midland, TX where he was attending a tournament with his Son,
    What that would have meant to the outcome of the match, I don't know,
    I was looking forward to playing the best they had to offer,
    Ken is a good player, but they were definitely soft at line #2 with out there #1 guy,
    Guess they might no be as deep as Cary Bazan thinks they are,javascript:void(0)
    Publish Your Comment

  5. interesting, I think 20% of league tennis is luck with your best players' conflicts. At sectionals I had two players that had pre-planned vacations and one that had a biz trip that cost him the 1st day leaving my with 9 available players on day 1.

    Aamer not avail:
    I don't think it would have changed the match to a GE win but probably a 3-2 instead of a 4-1. I do think GE has some depth at doubles but obviously not singles, I guess that is my usual way of building up every team to be great but I still think they can hang in and cause problems for OC and HP.

  6. Seeing the top two singles players was refering to DeWayne and Aamer based on them both being undefeated Line 1 singles specialist. Big-Brother (USTA) prevented that. If DeWayne would have beaten Aamer conveniencely, then I may be able to better understand the DQ decision.

    I personally would hate to see anyone else in the league DQ'd using the current criteria. That is the reason I brought it up in the earlier post...I feel it is a bad rule for my team therefore, I feel it is a bad rule for any team.

    Another point as to why I feel it is a bad rule:

    It is way to easy for a team to throw Line 3 players up against Line 1 and make it appear a player is "clearly above level" when in actuality it was merely the match-up.

    Take a look at how GE played what appears on paper to have played their Line 1 doubles against OC's Line 3 and won 6=0, 6-1. Does that mean they are clearly above the 3.5 level or does it mean they just played against a weaker line on that given day? I will say both JP and Ozzie are very good players but may have had an off day or just didn't gel as a doubles team on that day or possibly they were up against better 3.5 opponents.

    To ensure team don't switch lines, team should be penalized for clearly playing their more skilled players at lower lines which could potentially cause other lines to be preceived as playing "clearly above level".

    If you consider the above to be just good strategy for team tennis, which I'm sure many do, then it needs to be understood that the week to week matchups CANNOT be used to determine that someone is playing "clearly above level".

    With this post, I am through venting about the DQ decison and current rule and say, let's play on and enjoy the rest of the season. Hopely the rule can be adjust in future seasons.

    Thanks for allowing me to vent in this forum.

  7. It is a Mathematical algorithm that makes the decision to DQ a player, not Specific person or group,
    here is a link to the rules that govern NTRP and DQ's,

    Dwayne is a good player, but I have played better that have gotten moved up to 4.0 from 3.5,
    He plays a game that lends it's self well to 3.5, namely consistency, he may run into trouble when he meets players with more complete games and strokes,

    The problem is this, you self rate at 3.5, you enter the league at 3.5000, the second you win you go above 3.5001 - and that is a strike, 3 strikes your gone,
    Take for example the strange case of Jay Collum,
    Jay is a good guy,
    But he is not a 4.0 player, he had trouble even breaking into our active roster,
    played two matches won one and lost one, end of the season ranked out to 4.0,


    1) Why even bother taking the chance with your best players in the fall if there are no sectionals, If you win the city in the fall, get your team torn apart by being ranked up, go to the play offs in the spring and don't make it to sectionals because all your best players are gone? - the fall season is pretty pointless,

    2) why self rate at 3.5? why not self rate at 3.0 so you have some wiggle room? or 2.5 or 1.0?

    3) Was the 3rd set tie break implemented to stop people from deliberately dropping sets?

    3) Who invented liquid soap and Why?

  8. Links didn't make it in my post above here ya go.


    Jay Collum's Record

  9. so many questions I will only touch on one for now since I have to act like I am working. Fall season: I really think the automatic bid is what gets teams jazzed up about trying to win the Fall league. It is helpful to have this because of what we are talking about the DQ player. If you could go 0-10 and make it into the playoffs Joe. DQ could lose 3 matches and qualify to help you at DCC and Sectionals. I personally thought when I first started playing the fall here in Dallas that the auto bid was a great idea but I think I would rather just have the prize at the end be a coupon to Golfsmith. That way I think players would play at their true level or play up without the pressure that they are hurting a team. I think there would be more player movement as well in the ratings since you would soon find out which level you really belong at. As much as we are talking about getting bumped up I wish there was more active bumping down in the league system. I feel for players I have beaten the hell out of that should be playing 3.0 but have a 3.5 rating. In the 3.0 division there are only like 7 teams as opposed to 27 3.5 teams but as you all know you have played guys that don't belong at 3.5, I know I have about 6 or 7 on my B team and hopefully they will get moved down or else I doubt they will sign up again to be beaten regularly each weekend. These players also can figure in these DQ situations when they are beaten 6-0, 6-0 and cause someone to get booted out of the league. OC: I hope Dewayne is doing OK, I know Jan felt really bad when he was DQ'ed as did I, that email that comes from Austin kind of feels like someone yelling "Cheater" so I wish him the best and who knows maybe he can sign up an lose some 4.0 matches and be back for the Spring, is that possible I wonder? My DQ'ed player from last year is 0-2 at 4.0 so far which I find funny since according to the USTA, he is "clearly above level."

  10. ok I did some work so now I can slack off for a little longer. Your comment about rating way down to 2.0 or even 3.0 is something I use but the usta has become wise to this and I have seen DQ's come from this. Siby who is on our team now was rated 3.5 and after beating aforementioned Aamer and losing to Eddie Hill in a 3rd set tiebreak, the USTA contacted him and told him they were changing his rating to a 3.5. So I guess it works a little bit but cannot be used as a failsafe method of helping a borderline player. You are right about the self rating system putting you at 3.500 which doesn't make much sense, should they put you at 3.25. By that logic say you are 3.45 and then you sign up somebody who is your level and they start winning just like you do but because they are self rated they are penalized. Jay Collum is a great example of how this system is flawed, I remember seeing his name on the bump up list and just because he played Rob Bliss close that counted against him but yet one of my players beat Bliss 6-4, 6-1 and is still a 3.5 now. Go figure???

  11. 3rd set tiebreaker, I think this was only done to help with time constraints at larger events. I would like to play a full 3rd set at least in the Fall season but not so much in the Spring. Or I have discussed with others it should only be used in extreme heat situations.

    Liquid soap, good question, I prefer just a bar but my wife makes the rules so we are constantly running of liquid soap throughout the house.

  12. Glad you like venting as well, I think that is why I created the blog. I am note sure GE moved players around that much, it looks as if they don't have a consistent lineup but Doug Leuders is probably not line 3 doubles material. I have heard people talk about penalities or awards for playing your lineup "straight up" (i.e. rewarding more points for line 1 singles or doubles) I think it may be worth considering but I do like the current format that allows for room to mix things up. At times it is the only way to compete against a team that has a "ringer" or "ringers" I don't think captains stack lineups so much it just sucks when it happens to you at the wrong time.

  13. Your addicted to checking this stupid Site,
    your gonna lose your job,
    So after being bumped yourself are you happier in 4.0 are do you with you were still 3.5,
    Is the talent level that different,
    I have heard from several people that "they can't win in 3.5 so they want to play 4.0," OK, make sense I guess?

  14. I am happier at 4.0, I didn't appeal because I felt "done with" 3.5 although I never say never. I think the main diffrence between the two levels is at singles and line #1 doubles. After that good 3.5's can compete. I have lost 3 matches, two with singles specialists and one with a 3.5 player. I think the power of serve and level of volleying is the main difference between the two levels at least here in Dallas.

  15. OK, let me weigh in on this topic. The system is flawed. All you need to do is have an "official" watch a player play and it should be obvious. I know of several 3.5 players who got bumped up, who should never have been. They have classic 3.5 games. You can look at a player play and "know" what level that player truly is.

    Personally speaking, I'm rated at 3.5, but certain 3.5 players "frustrate" me with pushing the ball and not hitting out, that I lose focus and lose matches. That is why I have an average 3.5 Record, but when I am "on", it is just no contest within 3.5. I am clearly a 4.0 Level player, but I am waiting for USTA to declare me so.

    This I can tell you for a fact, if I put my mind to it, and I am motivated, I can beat anyone ranked as a 3.5 Player. That is not why NTRP Sections were created, they were created, I believe so that Men and Women would all play against each other in a highly competitive fashion, without one person being heads and heels better than his/her opponent.

    Just like the NFL, to create parity. And when one person excels, thru lessons, practice or whatever, they get moved up to the next level.

    Having said that, I grew up playing in the Open Draws and losing 75% of my matches to 4.5, 5.0, Teaching Pros and Satellite players, I love the NTRP Sectional matches, but there does need to be a better system in judging a person's level.

    Now, it would be foolish on my part to give my name, I just wished to anonymously share. :-)

  16. thanks "anonymous" I have no idea who you are...hmmm I know the USTA used to have officials at sectionals and nationals that would walk around and take notes about players but I haven't seen that lately. I don't think the USTA can afford to do this at the local level but I think a roving official at higher level tourneys might be a good deterrent for teams who might be clearly above level players onto teams. They could also judge off the NTRP descriptions instead of results. I haven't seen Dewayne play but I think he falls into that retriever type category and those are players who shouldn't be bumped up I believe because by defintion of the NTRP they do not have 4.0 skills most of the time.

  17. Cary,
    Congratulations on your most active posting yet.
    Does anybody have any Idea whats up with the JCC v. Canyon Creek Match?

    It's Weds and still no score?

  18. Yes I guess it is, I think as the season gets more interesting this blog will be more intersting, especially at 4.0. So you know the JCC team better than I do, in fact even with Dewayne's win you guys squeaked out a 3-2 win. Do you have a prediction on what happened in this match? I would guess CC won a close won because they have enough good doubles teams. John Brownlee is probably their best singles player along with Jolly but he hasn't played in a match yet so it depends on whether he played or not. This JCC team seems better than most they have put out before. I play them at 4.0 next weekend so I will get to meet some of their group. Hopefully they are weaker at 4.0 because we really need a win.

  19. I would not say we squeaked by,
    It was two third set tie breakers we lost,
    Both were played after we had 3 matches in the bag, Which brings down your mental focus a little,
    With the benefit of hindsight I really wish we would have got one of them now,
    Our whole season could come down to a Stupid 10 pt tiebreaker,
    I hate those things.

  20. we will call it a semi-squeak. I am guessing your match was one of those losses after the match had been decided. I agree it is hard to maintain focus, I have done that a couple of times recently. In the Spring our goal was the sweep every match and I did that because I knew I had some borderline and sure enough we got our DQ a week before the season ended an since we dominated so many teams it only changed one of our matches to a loss. Still no post on that CC match, I guess we may not know until the weekend.