Friday, May 9, 2008

Playoff format

So the playoff formats have arrived and there is a little bit of an uproar especially at 4.0. I think some of this backlash has occurred because these were released mid-season and we are used to certain past formats.

I can see good things in the new format mainly the fact the Fall wild card Spring results do count for something, that always seemed a bit odd that they were like a ghost in their own flight. This makes the 3.5 Garland v. HP/Jameson mean something at the end of the season, at least for Jameson’s group.

I saw Arnette’s notes on the playoff matter and his main problem is not with the playoff but our leagues in general. I couldn’t agree more. We have so many players and yet so few matches to play and costs keep rising like the price of gas. I had to split our group into two teams and in retrospect I could have done three teams if I had known we only had 7 matches to play.

Any thoughts on the matter????

21 comments:

  1. There are potential issues in three areas which ultimately impact our playoffs:
    1) Setting up flights
    2) Putting teams into flights
    3) Actual playoff structure, both number of teams & format

    Obviously #1 impacts #3 and also impacts the number of matches each team plays. #2 is a fairness (level playing field) issue.

    1)SETTING UP FLIGHTS
    The 4.5 league this year has 17 teams split into two flights, one flight has 9 teams the other 8 teams. So some teams play 8 matches and others play only 7 matches. The average team plays 7.53 matches. We should have split the 4.5 league up into THREE flights, with 6 teams in two flights and 5 teams in the third. Playing a double round robin would allow 10 teams to play 10 matches each and 5 teams would play 8 matches. The average team would play 9.41 matches. Much better!

    2)PUTTING TEAMS INTO FLIGHTS
    Many others have complained about this in the past. The DTA keeps their process a secret _ but the results are often terrible. This year in level 3.5 we have 3 of the top 4 teams all in Flight C. 4.0 has significant problems as well. Some teams have a very difficult path to the playoffs while others have a relatively easy path. We need a fairer, more transparent process.

    3)ACTUAL PLAYOFF STRUCTURE
    There are a bunch of issues here _ but let's pick just one: The 6 team playoff structure with two flights of three teams each really sucks! This structure is especially flawed when we are picking TWO teams to go to Sectionals. A MUCH BETTER APPROACH IS A 6 TEAM ROUND ROBIN.

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  2. FALL WINNERS
    Currently fall winners advance directly to the City Playoff. It might be better to allow the fall winners to advance only to the QT instead.

    Currently a fall winner has NO INCENTIVE WHATSOEVER TO DO THEIR BEST in any local spring league match. A fall winner could go 0 - 9 in the local league and still advance to the City Playoffs. For fall winners, all local matches are meaningless. This allows a fall winner to avoid playing their new, self-rated ringers very much and allows players with NTRP issues to have some very average scores _ as they laugh through their local matches.

    If fall winners were only assured a slot in the QT, they would still have an incentive to play hard to try to win 1st place. However, if they did really poorly they would still be guaranteed a QT spot.

    Also by putting the fall winner into the QT we could often avoid the dreaded 6 team City Playoff.

    CARY, COULD WE DO A POLL ON THIS ISSUE. JUST CURIOUS TO SEE WHAT OTHERS THINK.

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  3. Guaranteeing a QT spot for the fall winner would simplify the playoff structure where we have FOUR flights (level 4.0).

    The QT could consist of the 4 2nd place teams plus the fall winner. So we would have a 5 team round robin for the QT. (It would be a 4 team round robin if the fall winner finished 1st or 2nd)

    City Playoffs would include the 4 flight winners plus the QT winner. So again we would have a 5 team round robin.

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  4. FIXING THE MESS IN 4.0 PLAYOFFS
    The last sentence of our 4.0 league playoff process says: "There will be TWO wildcard teams from the QT competing in the City Championship IF the fall winner finishes 1st in their flight".

    That's crazy. IF Somabut's team wins their flight then we should take only ONE team from the QT and that gives us a FIVE TEAM ROUND ROBIN in the City Championships.

    We have never allowed 2 teams from the QT to advance to the City Championships _ and why start now? All that accomplishes is to screw up the City Championships.

    If Somabut's team does NOT win their flight, then let's have a 6 team round robin. Since we will be sending TWO level 4.0 teams to Sectionals, that's the only fair way to select the best two teams.

    COME ON DTA, FIX YOUR MISTAKE WHILE THERE IS STILL TIME!

    - Death Volley

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  5. The system is fine. Just because you people think you know who the better teams are and who should and should not advance should just shut up and play. The cream will rise to the top. Anything that causes the percieved "top" teams such as HP and Springpark problems or less certainty of making it to sectionals is a good thing for the other 30 teams.

    The only legitimate complaint with the DTA is the fact we are not playing but 7 or 8 matches. That should be corrected for next year. A 10 match season would be worth it and would do a better job of getting the better teams to the playoffs.

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  6. Thank you DTA for your input!

    1. The complaints from others about the 6 team playoff seem very legit to me, especially when you are trying to pick the TWO best teams to go to Sectionals. You could easily get both the top two teams in the same half and one would be eliminated _ and a weaker team finishes 2nd. A round robin for the City Championship is a much fairer approach.

    2. The seeding of teams within flights does seem to be a problem every year.

    But here is the point made by an earlier poster: Why is the placement of teams within flights such a big secret? If the DTA has nothing to hide then tell us what the process is. Is it a random draw or a clerk placing every team where he/she thinks each should go??? How many teams are "seeded"? Who does the "seeding"? Are the unseeded teams distributed randomly?

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  7. In level 3.5 it is pretty obvious to almost everyone that the flights are skewed with three of the very best teams all in Flight C.

    Legitmate question: Was this the result of random draw or an administrative process gone wrong?

    - Hardcourt

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  8. I like the earlier idea of the fall winner just getting a QT bid and in the future I wonder if the WC might just be done away with entirely. I think that would open up the fall league would be more fun because people might just actually be playing for fun and competition instead of positioning players for the Spring. It makes this into a year long job or at least it is starting to feel that way to me. As noted by a previous poster I think the main issue at hand is the lack of matches, there should be a minimum number before we agree to pay our league fee next time around, 9 or 10 would be vote for a minimum.

    Seeding:
    I think this is too difficult to decide unless it went soley by computers and we see how that can be screwy sometimes.

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  9. Why would the DTA care if Dallas sends their top 2 teams to Sectionals? I would like to see the "top" team advance to sectionals and could care less who the other team is since chances are they have no shot.

    I Would like to see a round robin with 6 teams in it, 5 matches each.

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  10. I agree with "Hardcourt" _ the DTA should change the 4.0 Playoff to a round robin. Most everyone seems to agree on that point and there is plenty of time to change.

    However, I do not expect to see any change by the DTA. There is a lot of arrogance in that organization that runs very deep.

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  11. I always thought the DTA randomly put teams into the various flights. IF they are doing it some other way we deserve to know how it is done.

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  12. I also like the idea of giving the fall winner a spot only in the QT, not the City Championships. That seems to make more sense to me.

    And maybe Cary is right. Maybe we do not need to give the fall winner any special standing the following spring.

    - Death Volley

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  13. The DTA is not putting teams, other than the top 3 seeds, in each group by a random drawing. They "are"
    placing them based on a decision of where they think they should go. This is totally wrong. It should all be done according to a drawing after 2 seeds in each group is determined by and from all of the evidence available. Please everyone needs to respond to this and
    let's try to get this changed.

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  14. DALLAS TENNIS ASSOCIATION
    We know you read our blogs so don't ignore us . . .

    League players want to know:
    1) Specifically HOW are teams assigned to flights?
    2) If teams are seeded HOW is this done and WHO does the seeding?
    3) How many teams are seeded?
    4) Why are the seeded teams not disclosed like they do for tournaments?
    5) Are non-seeded teams distributed randomly?
    6) Does anyone observe this process?

    YOU TAKE OUR MONEY AND THE ONLY THING YOU DO FOR LEAGUE PLAYERS IS SET UP FLIGHTS AND PREPARE A SCHEDULE.

    SO TELL US HOW YOU DO IT UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO BE ASHAMED OF!!!


    - Hardcourt

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  15. WHAT DOES THE DTA DO FOR LEAGUE PLAYERS??? Seriously!

    Answer: NOT MUCH!!!

    WE . ..
    1) find players for our rosters
    2) sign up ourselves on TennisLink
    3) find and schedule courts
    4) coordinate with players to get them to show for matches
    4) play our matches
    5) supply our own balls
    6) report scores when we are finished

    What does the DTA do for all the money we pay in league fees??
    1) Set up flights and prepare schedules. (Oh, and I almost forgot about those expensive wristbands.)

    The DTA keeps the process for assigning teams to flights a big secret and yet it seems to get screwed up every year.

    Something is very wrong!

    - Death Volley, Men's 4.0 Player

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  16. Typical arrogant league bullshit.

    Grow up or just stop playing and ruining league for the rest of us!

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  17. It is a VERY legitmate question. What is the process for putting teams into flights?

    No one is ruining anything for you. Don't be such an asshole!

    - Hardcourt

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  18. Let's not be too hard on the DTA. They work very hard and they try to be fair to all teams. Their job is a difficult one and it is impossible to please everyone.

    - Bob Bender

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  19. I am personally very disappointed that the DTA chose to single out the 4.0 ntrp level, and put us in two divisions of 3 teams. I figure this means there will be 7 matches instead of 14 (with 6 teams) if it were a round robin. So like most decisions - it probably comes down to money, and maybe even court time / availability. Nonetheless, as a true sportsman, I have always felt round robin format is the purest form to determine the best.

    And as my season is a short 7 matches, and then 3 at the most in the playoffs, that is a real bummer.
    Kirby

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  20. The DTA does a poor job in setting up flights and putting teams into flights. Significant problems occur every year.

    Most players have issues with (1)not enough matches (which is directly related to how many flights are established) and (2) the placing of teams within the flights.

    The DTA never communicates with us on thoses decisions _ everything is kept a big secret. I believe this is a clerical driven process done by someone who is out of touch with Men's League players.

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  21. i'm tired of being nice to the dta

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