Sunday, October 18, 2009

4.5 Week Headlines

Not too many surprises this week in the 4.5 division. Here are the top stories from Sunday.

Flight A

LUDWIG BACK DOWN TO EARTH--Brookhaven finally plays a worthy opponent and prove the critics right. BH actually had a chance to win the match with a couple of meaningful tiebreaks going Greenhill's way, so maybe they are better than we thought.

BAZAN BEATS SOMABUT--Probably the first and only time I will say that. Not too many actual 4.5s in this match but Bazan came out with the win (first of the season).

TBAR and OAK CREEK CONTINUE TO CRUISE--These two teams have solidified themselves as the top of the flight and, since they have already played each other, I find it unlikely that either will falter. Greenhill will have to go undefeated to make it, but calculating matches and sets is not their friend at this point.

Flight B

BOVERMANN AND ROTHWELL--Anybody know the results? Winner should be in good position for playoffs.

LIFETIME IN SECOND PLACE??--Lifetime gets their third win of the season. Except for the lapse against Northwood, they are undefeated. Hard to picture a team that is 9-11 in individual matches making the playoffs though.

Flight C

MIGHTY OAK CREEK LOSES....AGAIN--The Lakes have a commanding 4-0 lead in the division. It seems unfathomable that they will miss the playoffs now. Oak Creek is on life support. Even though this team is a shell of its former self, I expected better with James, Pollard, Slezak, and Braswell still on the roster. But, as I'm sure they will say, it's only the fall.

HIGH POINT V. BAIRD HAS HUGE PLAYOFF IMPLICATIONS--Loser of this match is all but eliminated with two losses whereas the winner will move into second place. This really looks like it will be the most competitive battle for second place of all the flights.

NEXT WEEK: BROOKHAVEN V. LAKES--I look for the Lakes to come back to reality a little bit with a loss here. Brookhaven's top lineup can beat anybody in the flight but we have rarely seen that all season.

Thoughts??

154 comments:

  1. Who cares. It's not main stream tennis.

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  2. Well, Fenn and Featherstone I see got their first 4.5 thumping. Welcome to 4.5, this is how you get better. Humbling isn't it?

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  3. LT in second, but RO and OC-Bovermann have one less match played and haven't faced LT yet. If LT can come out on top of both teams, then people should take notice. Nice win over OC-Juhn.

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  4. I don't expect LT to beat either of those teams, definitely not Royal Oaks.

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  5. As recently as fall 2006, Featherstone was winning matches at 5.0. I can't imagine that 4.5 feels that overwhelming or humbling.

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  6. Well he got his ass kicked by OC 2 weekends ago, so, actually, I think it would feel humbling. especially when your used to winning every weekend.

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  7. Lifetime has back to back showdown matches (OC and RO) to see if they are for real or not. Maybe that blowout vs Norwood was caused by 3 or 4 missing guys. We will see in the next 2 weeks. Seems like they don't have much margin for error

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  8. Is it that big of a jump from 4.0 to 4.5 that the 3rd place 4.0 national team can't compete any better in 4.5 FALL league? Or ratings mgmt?

    Flight A - OC and Greenhill meet next week to determine 2nd place.

    Flight B - Northwood and Royal Oaks look all set to go 1/2

    Flight C - Lakes looks to have locked down a playoff spot. Other spot should come down to HP/BH in 2 weeks. Most competitive flight here.

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  9. No it's not that big of a jump.

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  10. Fenn & Featherstone are working on keeping there 4.0 status for the spring!

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  11. I doubt that. Its more of a big jump for singles than doubles.

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  12. Not ready to give RO the 2nd place trophy yet.

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  13. There is a difference in every jump in levels...don't kid yourself. As you move up shot making ability improves as does consistency...but most importantly, playing well at the right time improves. Knowing which shots to hit at the right moment makes a significant difference.

    The other major element that improves as you move up is technique/solid strokes. You might get away with crappy strokes at lower levels but as you move up, matches are decided by fewer and fewer key points.

    Poor technique tends to fall apart under pressure and many matches, even those that are apparent blow-outs, come down to a handful of points.

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  14. The top 10% of each level is better than about 70% of the level above them.

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  15. Close, but I would say.

    Top 5% is better than 60% of next level, and equal to or better than 85% That middle 25% is good and matches can go either way. The top 15% at the higher level is just too good for any bump ups to beat unless they were unbeaten ringer at lower level.

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  16. Unless ofcourse....your name is Eddie, then all bets are off. You can jump 2 levels and still beat top 15%.

    Wait he is 0-2 in the Fall??? Lucky his team is picking up the slack for his losses. nothing new I guess.

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  17. Say what you want about Eddie and Crew. Lifetime beats OC Boverman this weekend 3-2 and sets up match of the Fall vs Royal Oaks on Nov 1.

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  18. Quote - "Top 5% is better than 60% of next level, and equal to or better than 85%"

    That is absolutely total nonsense. About all you can say is the top 20% of the lower level can compete with the lower 20% of the level above.

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  19. I don't exactly think getting beat 7-5, 6-2 is getting your "ass kicked".

    Even players who are in the upper portion of their level can get beaten pretty soundly if they're having an off day.

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  20. Anon 930 am
    You are probably a mid level 4.5, and yes you would get your ass kicked by a top 4.0 level player. Don't feel bad though the top 3.5 players would beat most 4.0 players as well.

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  21. Hey Lifetimer, hopefully this isn't too deep for you you, but have ever read this quote?

    "So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.

    If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.

    If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself."

    Why do I suspect you fall into the last category???

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  22. Anon at 9:43 - you are clueless

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  23. A top 3.5 player can compete with the bottom 20% at 4.5. Anyone can self rate at 4.5. That doesn't make them a good player. I've played some really bad 4.5 players.

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  24. I agree that I think top 10% is better than about 70%, maybe 60% of the next level. Couldn't follow the math below, it got a little fuzzy for me. Definitely don't agree with the 20% 20% ratio though. Much higher than that.

    As for October 19, 2009 9:09 AM, pretty solid analysis. Even the blow outs are just a few key points as you go up higher in level.

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  25. Regarding the difference in levels, why do you think they exist? There are obviously differences.

    I think everyone can agree there is overall between the top portion of the lower level and the bottom portion of the higher level.

    All that means is if those two groups played 10 times, they would have competitive matches. I would bet the upper level group would win the majority of the matches.

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  26. Ok Sacartes.. I know myself and know my enemy. If don't play better tennis I lose. If I play my best tennis and the opponent is better and plays better.. I lose.

    what are you saying? this is 4.5 tennis we are talking about. none of us are pro's. We win... we lose... we work hard to get better...ok

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  27. thats Sacrates.. i think

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  28. Sorry, no way a top 3.5 can compete with anyone at 4.5 Even the lower 4.5, cause you still had to be a good 4.0 to get to 4.5. No way.

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  29. Have you ever watched the guys at 3.5 sectionals. I've played a couple of people at 4.5 that would lose to some of these guys. I think Corey practices with Sisk's 3.5 team sometimes. Maybe he can shed some light on this subject.

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  30. I was shocked to see people actually talking in the 4.5 thread. I agree that singles is a much tougher jump than doubles. For one thing, the best player on most teams is usually playing line 1 singles. You will see many doubles players make the jump up and continue to win, but very few singles players.
    I'm certainly rooting for Lifetime to keep the playoff hopes alive.

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  31. It is the Eddie factor Cory. Wherever he goes... mouths will be running!!!

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  32. We discussed this a lot during the 4.5+ superstar discussion. I firmly believe none of John's singles players could beat any of my singles players, and none of his doubles players could beat any of my doubles players. If you start mixing singles and doubles players than you never know.

    But, if John had his best 3.5 lineup every week in the 4.5 division, they would win some individual lines. You also have to consider that just because somebody is playing 4.5, doesn't mean they are rated 4.5. There are at least 5 or 6 teams in 4.5 who don't even have 8 4.5 players on their roster.

    The jump that is really easy is from 4.5 to 5.0, as long as you don't play singles. One of my guys from last season is 4-0 this season in 5.0, and nearly everybody he's played has been 4.5. There are just so few legitimate 5.0s, that the league is full of 4.5s. The 4.5 league is starting to become like that because so many 4.0s are tired of being in 30-team league of 4.0s.
    The 4.0s moving up this season actually has hurt the 4.5 league because we dropped from 9 matches last season to 6 this season, and at least 3 of our 6 are non-competitve. The fall was already underappreciated but this season is a joke.

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  33. It's dumb to think there isn't a really good 3.5 that couldn't beat a bad 4.5. Your really talking about 2 mid level 4.0 players playing each other.

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  34. I'm glad to have Eddie here, because the 4.5 section was dead. I was about to give up on its revival.

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  35. Eddie better start winning or his ass will get shipped back to 4.0. Maybe by his teamates. :-)

    Eddie

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  36. As a middle of the road 4.5 there is not a top 3.5 or mid level 4.0 that can beat me. they just are not consistant enough and I make them pay for hitting below avearge shots at times. Just like I can't beat top 5% 4.5 guys. They do the exact same thing to me.

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  37. We are talking about the gap between playing 4.0 to playing actual 4.5 players. Common sense here. No need to interject that 4.5 league has a lot of 4.0s playing up.

    Lifetime vs Royal Oaks match of the Fall?!?! If by Fall you meaning falling on your face, then I concur. Royal Oaks, even in their weakened state should be fine.

    But big thanks to the Lifetimers for creating discussion. Didn't hear much from you after your 5-0 drubbing. But win a couple sloppy 3-2 matches and the chatter is back!

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  38. Cory,

    I can understand what your saying about the number of players bumped up actually working against you because we have less matches, BUT if they had put us into 2 flights instead of 3, that's 22 teams, so everyone would have 10 matches (you don't play urself), with a buy week, that is 11 weeks. That was completely do-able already.


    If we lose any teams in the Spring or stay the same, we should only have 2 flights. If we add any teams, the players from the bigger teams should really think about finding a smaller team or creating another team or two. i think everyone at 4.5 wants to play every week generally.

    To me, it doesn't look like you should have more then 12 or 13 players on your team.

    If we got 2 more teams for Spring, that would be 8 teams per flight/ 7matches. That looks like the most probable scenario for Spring, unless we have a bunch of bump ups or bump downs.

    Long story short, plan for another short season in the spring. This fall we should of only had 2 flights, but its too late now to cry over spilt milk.

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  39. anon 1035 am
    I think the argument is would you get beat by one of the top 4.0's. My guess is you would lose about 70% of the time. It was said a top 3.5 player would beat a bottom 4.5 not an average one. I think the 4.5 would win about 90% of the time, but I think a top 3.5 would make it close every time.

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  40. LFT is a team that is made up of guys who are almost all mid year bump ups. The worst they can do is a .500 record. I think this answers the question of how would a top 4.0 team do at 4.5.

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  41. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  42. Anon October 19, 2009 12:01 PM "Lifetime vs Royal Oaks ..."

    I can't even begin to deny one single word you said. But, I guess we might as well start up the rivalries now, makes it a lot more fun come Sundays.

    Still have to make it through next week, which is certainly no guarantee. Already, I would say the season has been a success (for us) and we will finish ahead of where I (at least) had us slotted to finish.

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  43. "LFT is a team that is made up of guys who are almost all mid year bump ups. The worst they can do is a .500 record. I think this answers the question of how would a top 4.0 team do at 4.5."

    So the consensus is that HP/Somabut is tanking 4.5 this fall since they are 1-3?

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  44. Some of HP Bob's players are not playing on his 4.5 team, and yes there could be some score management going on.

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  45. Don't get me started on that score management stuff. What a BS and chickensh*t thing to do.

    As far as "Royal Oaks v Lifetime" goes, we will see about that. We have a huge match to take care of this weekend or that match vs RO means nothing.

    BMo I am going talk to Eddie about keeping you out of the line-up the rest of the way since you are so satisfied with our 9-13 overall lines record this fall. ;-)

    If we take care of business this Sunday, expect some major trash talk heading into that RO match. Get your popcorn ready 4.5!!!

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  46. Well 9-11 that is!!

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  47. There is a difference between losing on purpose, and playing for fun. I don't think anyone on Bob's team is taking the fall 4.5 too seriously. The team is mostly 4.0 players anyway. It's just practice for next season.

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  48. The fact that Eddie's team is 3-1 doesn't tell me that a top 4.0 can beat a medium 4.5, because they have some established 4.5 players on their team too (Dante, Forrest, Andrew). Those are the guys that are winning.

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  49. Get your popcorn ready. There is nothing more fun than watching team Eddie fail. We got to watch it for 2 years at 4.0. We will miss him.

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  50. Throw out an average 4.5 name, and I can name at least 6 guys off of Bob's team last season that would beat him badly.

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  51. Really, LTF only has 2 guys that were 4.5s last year.

    And the original gauntlet was 4.5 and 3.5. not 4.0

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  52. #1 3.5 last year was Prather, no way he could beat any 4.5 guys.

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  53. CoreDawg, do you consider yourself a high level 4.5?

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  54. CoreDawg is a good 4.5

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  55. Really this a crazy argument. There are sandbaggers at every level that can beat players at the next. Kern.

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  56. The jump from 4.5 to 5.0 is about the biggest jump there is across the levels.

    Cory - I'm not talking about playing other 4.5's that are playing up, I am talking about REAL 5.0 studs. It is a significant jump in skill level.

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  57. I consider myself a slightly above average 4.5. To the last poster, I totally agree with you. That's why I can never imagine myself as a 5.0, because as a singles player, I would get crushed every week. Some of the guys playing 5.0 singles are incredible. But from a score perspective, it would probably be the same as the jump to other levels.

    High 3.5s get crushed by high 4.0s, high 4.0s get crushed by high 4.5s, high 4.5s get crushed by high 5.0s. There is evidence of this throughout the league.

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  58. Those sandbaggers are the exception, not the rule. At the end of the season, let's look at the record of the guys that moved up from 4.0 this season against actual 4.5 players. I would expect them to have a 30-40 win percentage.

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  59. Good point. The sandbaggers are few and far between. I disagree about the gap between average 5.0 and the top of the 4.5 level. It is not that different. The top of 5.0 is another issue...

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  60. Since much of LTF was bumped up and the 3.5/4.0 threads have gone dead make one believe that most of the talk was coming from LTF?

    I really don't care because there is talk. Let me be the next to thank LTF.

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  61. I don't think but maybe a portion of the talk comes from Lifetime people.

    Here's my breakdown on the usual chatter:

    1/3 Lifetime
    1/3 engaged in the chatter
    1/3 hates lifetime

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  62. "3/3 hates Eddie"

    The hate must be strong since it looks like several 4.0s are trolling this 4.5 thread now.

    Since no 4.5s have a problem w/ Eddie/Lifetime, I'll conclude he's an ok guy and the 4.0s were just jealous haters.

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  63. Ok Oct. 19 2:47pm, here is an average 4.5 name for you Eddie Hill. Now let me hear you name the 6 or 7 guys on Bobs team that would beat him...

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  64. An average 4.5 would win a couple of matches at 4.5.

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  65. I would agree with that. He is not an average 4.5 at this point. Use a guy that went .500 at 4.5 in spring in Singles.

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  66. or try to name 6-7 3.5 people that could even come close to beating him, like the original conversation was. Never going to happen.

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  67. Featherstone, Weymer, Jarad, Keith, and Dencil would beat Eddie, or an average 4.5. There are a few more people on that roster that will do well at 4.5 as well.

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  68. R u kidding? Eddie has been a great captain. Organizes practices really well ans atays on guys to play.

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  69. The original conversation was not whether a top 3.5 could beat an average 4.5. Everybody knows they can't.

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  70. Anybody want to break down the record of 4.0 bumpups so far this season against established 4.5s? Outside of lifetime and some of bob's players, I don't really know who they are.

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  71. Do you think the 4.5 seasons are shorter because there is more torque on your shoulder, arms, elbows, then in levels below it?

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  72. Just looking up on name only, not looking to see the quality of whom they played. Kirby & Kyle have not faired so well. Noaman, looks to be doing pretty good. Mitch has played once and lost. Keith lost once, but he lost to Marty. I just did a quick search on the old bump up list, but I really don't know too many guys that got bumped up other than these names that play league. (other than LTF). I think there are just a lot more 4.0s playing 4.5 this year as well.

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  73. Jeff Abercrombie won his appeal down apparently, and is not playing fall. A team that is lookign to put together a national team, better grab this guy (his record looked really good last year).

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  74. Are you his agent???

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  75. BMo, I don't think anyone said Eddie was a bad captain. Just not a solid 4.5 at this point. I would agree.

    Don't think Dencil, Jared or Keith would beat Eddie in Singles either. All are better Doubs players, but would lose to him often in singles. He creates a lot of problems for people in singles with his athleticism. Those guys would not beat him. Weymer and Featherstone would win 6 or 7 out of 10 vs Eddie.

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  76. Are you kidding me? Weymer, Featherstone & Talliat would beat Eddie 10 out of 10 times. Fenn beats him 8 out of 10 times, get real!

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  77. Let's end all the talk here. I split 2 matches with Tailet and have never played Fenn. I did beat the guy he lost to at FW MZ to win that tournament. Not sure that means anything, but that is the closest we came to playing. I have seen Featherstone & Weymer. Both good players that I would expect to have tough matches with. Would give them the edge on Tennis ability, but that I have beaten many players with more ability. We will just have to see when we meet. I can promise you this, none of those guys would beat me 8 out of 10 times let alone 10 out of 10. that's funny.

    Eddie

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  78. i don't know who this Eddie guy is but he sure is cocky. I guess he hasn't figured out that in tennis, there is ALWAYS someone better than you. Shooting your mouth off is an obvious give-away that he hasn't been playing very long.

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  79. Don't think defending himself against someone that says you will get beat 10 out of 10 times is cocky. Don't think he shouted his mouth off either. Said they would be tough matches. He is 0-2 at 4.5 at this point, I think he understands there are plenty of people better than him. He was being compare to other 4.0 bump ups. That kind of comment above by the anon is how this reputation with Eddie get's overblown. Didn't see anything cocky in his comment.

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  80. Who's better than Federer???

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  81. Who you ask????

    Give me an "E"
    Give me a "D"
    Give me a "D"
    Give me an "I"
    Give me an "E"

    Now, What's that spell????

    ....Bad Tennis Player

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  82. Check out Nadal's record against Federer.

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  83. The point of this whole conversation is that no bumpup is going to come in to the next level and dominate. If they do, they never should have been playing the lower level in the first place. Obviously there are guys playing 4.0 that can beat guys playing 4.5, but I would argue more that the 4.5 guys should be playing 4.0, not that the 4.0 guys should be playing 4.5.

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  84. Took the words out of my mouth!! Vamos Rafa!!!

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  85. Lifetime is really set to make a run here at 4.5. How good is RO Cory? Strength in singles or doubs??

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  86. I will e-mail you. Can't give away league secrets.

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  87. Weymer and Featherstone would stone Eddie 10 out of 10. No question.

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  88. You all take this crap way to seriously. NERDS!

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  89. All do respect Eddie, who have you beaten that has more talent than Weymer and Featherstone? Get over yourself.
    Ok---Vicalis beat you, Noel beat Vicalis, can Noel beat you? Fenn scenario not worth squat.
    Challenge them, play and see what happens!!!!
    Federer #1 in the World.... Federer vs the rest of the World? Awesome!!!! Federer vs Nadal? SUX!

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  90. Noel got lucky. I saw that match. Vicalis is a much better player than Noel. Looked like vicalis (sp) lost his head.

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  91. After Masters, why don't you and Weymer just play? It could be a fun match to watch anyway.

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  92. Nadal is as lucky as Vicalis---Play Corey yourself-----

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  93. WHO ARE THE NAMES OF THE PLAYERS, WHO ARE MORE TALENTED THAN WEYMER AND FEATHERSTONE, THAT EDDIE BEAT? Don't throw something out there w/o backing it up!!!!! He won't name them, because the hole gets too deep!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  94. I say we just have a nice little round robin with the 4 of us weekend of Nov 21st. Play 2 matches on Saturday and 1 on Sunday. Me, Featherstone, Weymer, Noel. Each play each other in round robin format. guy with the most wins is champ. Guy with most losses buys lunch on Sunday for other 3. Simple and fun. Post the results and shut up all the talk.

    Eddie

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  95. BTW. When I said "I have beaten many players with more ability", I was talking about players with more ability than I have...not more ability than Weymer and Featherstone. I could see where that could be misunderstood. I was saying they have more tennis ability than I do, but I have beaten lots of players that have more tennis ability than I do. Wasn't a slight at Weymer and Featherstone at all. Actually a compliment.

    Eddie

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  96. Eddie and I are on the same side for once. I was lucky to win that match with John. But he was also lucky to get ahead 6-3, 4-0. I started playing horrible and played better. He started playing great and played worse. Obviously we are close and any time a match goes to a third-set tiebreak there is luck involved. However, if somebody loses their head you can't call their opponent lucky.

    I'm in for the round-robin. I have no idea who Weymer and Featherstone are but I'll play.

    As for the Federer-Nadal conversation, I do think nobody is better than Federer. But, in my opinion, he can never be called the greatest player of all time when he has a horrendous record against his number 1 rival.

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  97. Eddie,

    Even if you won all three sets in this round-robin that will never happen, it won't matter. Everybody will find some way to discount you (or me for that matter). And if we all play just one set that leaves even more room for error or people's skepticism about who is better.

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  98. By the way, does anybody want to actually talk about the 4.5 matches this weekend?

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  99. I was thinking we would play 2 sets each match and a 3rd set tiebreak if needed. Round Robin tournament style. 2 matches Saturday. 1 on Sunday. Anyway you are right. Let's see if Weymer and Featherstone are in.

    As far as matches for this weekend. The big one in our Flight has to be LTF vs OC Boverman. The only real drama there is if we win our playoff hopes live another week until we face Royal Oaks Nov 1st. If we lose it is over really as RO has already beaten OC badly. BTW. Lifetime wins 3-2. Should be a great match up.

    Eddie

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  100. The biggest match is Greenhill vs OC Feldman. Winner goes to playoffs. Loser season is finished. OC 3-2

    LTF vs OC Bovermann - OC sweeps singles, wins 3-2

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  101. "The point of this whole conversation is that no bumpup is going to come in to the next level and dominate. If they do, they never should have been playing the lower level in the first place. "

    Gene Davis and Jason Kern the last two years. Both S&V style. 4.0 baseliners take a while to acclimate at 4.5 b/c they are used grinding/pushing.

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  102. Are you kidding me? No way that OC beats both Forrest & Johan or anyone else. LTF splits singles, WORST case, and Captain Bovermann wins his line for a 3-2 loss.

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  103. I say we just have a nice little round robin with the 4 of us weekend of Nov 21st. Play 2 matches on Saturday and 1 on Sunday. Me, Featherstone, Weymer, Noel. Each play each other in round robin format. guy with the most wins is champ. Guy with most losses buys lunch on Sunday for other 3. Simple and fun. Post the results and shut up all the talk.

    Eddie



    Only problem is that Craig and Chris would waste a weekend hanging out with pricks

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  104. ok. that's good input. good job with that comment. that really helped everyone out with this topic. thanks

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  105. "Only problem is that Craig and Chris would waste a weekend hanging out with pricks"

    Should not be a problem. If YOU are on the HP team they already do that every weekend.

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  106. Corey is not a p----, only someone who doesn't know him says that. I don't know Eddie, just by reading this blog, he probably is nice once you get to know him.

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  107. im in for RR let me know when and where
    craig weymer

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  108. To no fault of your own, but LFT happens to be in one of the weaker 4.5 lines in the last 5years. The teams they have beat (and winning 3-2) typically have losing records and only win 2 team matches in a season. Bovermann's team will be a good measuring stick for that squad. If Bovermann has his best players available, I see his team winning 3-2 in a close match.

    The most interesting matches besides Felman vs Greenhill is in flight C with Lakes vs Bookhaven and HP vs OC-Herget. Lakes is the only team that can really afford a loss. I look for Bookhaven to win and OC-Herget to bounce back in close 3-2 matches.

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  109. Craig. Send Cory your email address so we can set it up. Get your boy Featherstone as well. Let's do it Nov 21 and 22nd. I will nail down the location in Plano area, either HP or LTF. Maybe 9am and 12pm on Saturday and 10am on Sunday. It will be fun.

    Eddie

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  110. I do not know Jason, but I would certainly not call Gene a 4.0 bump up. He played 5.0 and 4.5 for most of the decade. Not sure how he was playing 4.0 in 2008. He certainly did not belong there, which was Corey's point.

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  111. Eddie, why dont you just save yourself a lot of time and frustration and just take the 3 of them to lunch now!

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  112. BTW - The league does that on purpose so that they don't frustrate the teams too much. They put the stronger teams in a stronger flight, and the weaker teams in the weaker flight in general. Makes for competitive matches for the weeks.

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  113. I didn't agree last season but this season I think our flight is the weakest I've ever seen in 4.5 by far. Although, other teams perceived as strong (Oak Creek/Herget, Brookhaven, and High Point) have not impressed me either. That being said, my team will probably lose this weekend.

    Craig, my e-mail address is noelcarter91199@yahoo.com. I work until noon every Saturday but I could play after that and Sundays are wide open. John Sisk and I are putting together a tournament too but I can't remember if it was that weekend or the previous.

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  114. Last spring we had a very clear major and minor league in 4.5. Don't mean to insult anyone, but that was pretty obvious. The only issue is does the DTA do that intentionally or are they just dumb?

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  115. the dta should at least tell us how this is done

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  116. why? do they tell you how to do your job?

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  117. Because we all pay league fees and we all deserve a fair process, dumbass! Are u retarded?

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  118. I THINK THE MAJOR LEAGUE/MINOR LEAGUE IS A GOOD APPROACH FOR LEVEL 4.5. IT MAKES FOR BETTER MATCHES. THE DTA SHOULD JUST DOCUMENT THEIR PROCEDURES SO WE ALL UNDERSTAND.

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  119. It was BS because HP beat RO in the playoffs.

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  120. they dont have all the kinks worked out but the dta is trying to get all the best 4.5 teams in the same flight. apparently there were complaints from captains about uneven matches. having A and B flights is a pretty good solution.

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  121. if they are going to have A and B flights and put the best teams in flight A, then they need to have alot more teams getting qualified for the playoffs out of flight A versus flight B.

    In the past, they take the same amount of teams from each flight which isnt legit if they truely do try to stack the flights

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  122. u r right. they do need to fix the playoffs. maybe flight B has their playoffs first and only their top team advances to the real playoffs involving the A teams.

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  123. The Senior 4.5 team from San Antonio is undefeated so far this weekend at Nationals. It is a good year for Texas mens teams!

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  124. Maybe u just need to realize that if u can't make it out of your flight as a top 2 team in flight A, that u don't deserve to be in the playoffs. when the AFC sucked in football for years and years, u never saw them say, we will just put 2 NFC teams in the superbowl... I thought all the crybabies played 3.5

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  125. I think the A / B league set up has a lot of merit. But the top team from the B league needs to be able to play their way up to the A league over time.

    We could have an A league playoff to see which team advances to Sectionals. And a B League playoff (with the weaker teams) for a trophy or sometime.

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  126. I dont no anything about the American Football League??? But there are too many guys playing 4.5 that really belong in 4.0 or lower. The major league and minor league approach makes a lot of sense.

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  127. Anon 2:44pm..that is a horrible comparison.

    It is like any major pro tennis tourney or March Madness. They dont stick the top 8 players or teams in the same piece of the draw so they could have more competitive matches early on. Under that logic you are saying its OK to have Roddick, Nadal, Federer, etc all play each first, then the winner of that gets to play the winner of the guys ranked in the 100s for the title....

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  128. Complain what you want, but I think that the USTA does a pretty good job. They think this through more than people think. If the B team (aka Noel's team) has a good showing in the playoffs, then there is probably a good chance that they will be in another division (assuming that flights remain the same). It all works itself out. I am having fun every week. Noel's team might be at a slight disadvantage come playoffs, but nothing is going to be completely fair ever. Just the way it is.

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  129. to:
    Anon October 24, 2009 3:25 PM

    Except they aren't catering to the Nadals, Federers, Murrays, etc. They are catering to the mass majority. Good teams get to play against the good teams. Bad teams get to play against the other bad teams. Its fun for the whole season, and there is still a playoff at the end. Your never going to be able to keep everyone happy, cause every one has their different views on things. For me, the A flight, Lesser B flight works well. Since they don't divulge how they do things, they can always change how they set things up without it having to be a major ordeal. Part of the secrecy process means u can change things on a whim. Not a bad thing.

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  130. A/B leagues -> great idea. DTA secrecy is low class

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  131. Anybody who is taking this seriously is wasting their time. This is just somebody trying to be funny but the joke got old after the 10th time we heard it. The so-called A teams from last season have all lost already with the exception of Feldman's team. It's very clear that the flights were evenly divided based on available data. My flight has two playoff teams from last season, Feldman's flight has one playoff team with two strong teams that barely missed out, and High Point's flight has three playoff teams, but two of the three were hurt severely by bumpups. The other teams were a mystery going into the season so they are placed randomly.
    I'm not sure why they didn't put two playoff teams in each flight but they didn't. Nevertheless, all of the deserving teams will make the playoffs, and only one will win so it really doesn't matter.

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  132. the facts don't lie. way to put them out there Cory.

    I do think the top teams should be separated though. Maybe 8 teams every year with 6 of those 8 making playoffs, so to leave some room for error. then have the other teams fight for 2 other remaining playoff spots. some referenced that they don't separate by top teams in NCAA mrch madness, but actually they do. The teams are diveded by confernce during regular season. Top, or better conference teams (ACC, Big East, Pac10) get to play top competition during season, the best 5-6 teams from those top conferences make the NCAA tourney. the weaker confernces get to play lower level, more competitive teams like themselves during regular season then get only 1 team into NCAA tourney.

    I would like to see that happen

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  133. Say what you want Corey, but I think we have been in stronger and weaker flights for awhile w adjustments by DTA on purpose. You even said it earlier. I guess we will never know for sure.

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  134. Cory,
    You are REALLY dumb if you believe our 2009 spring 4.5 league was not a Major league / Minor league set-up.

    The best 3 teams from spring '08 plus the previous fall winner were all put in the same flight. THAT'S A FACT. At 2009 DCC the order of finish was:
    OC/Branch 3-0
    OC/Feldman 2-1
    RO/Rothwell 1-2
    BH/Harlee 0-3

    The top three teams at our DCC were all in the same flight. THATS A FACT. BH/Harlee should not have been allowed to play in the DCC. T-Bar was better than BH. (That's an opinion.)

    Why do you try to distort the facts? Were you upset that your team was in the weaker flight? Do you also claim the earth is flat? What the hell is your agenda? We CLEARLY had an "A" league and a "B" league last spring in 4.5.

    The issues are: (1) Was it intentional or just another DTA screw-up? (2) is it a good idea going forward?

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  135. 2008 DCC 4.5 Results:
    1. Oak Creek / Branch 3-0
    2. Royal Oaks / Rothwell 2-1
    3. T-Bar-M / Modic 1-2
    4. Village / Noel
    Fall winner: Oak Creek / Feldman

    Top three teams from 2008 plus fall winner were all put in flight A in 2009.

    My opinion _ that was intentional and part of as DTA experiment to group the top 4.5 teams together.

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  136. I agree with anon 6:09 am. Grouping the best 4.5 teams together in a flight while grouping the weaker teams together will give everyone better matches.

    But we do need some method to allow a very strong "B" team to play their way up to the "A" group.

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  137. It is even more like the NCAA's March Madness. The QT the weekend before cities is a chance for those teams that goofed up during the season. If there are 2 divisions, then that means an extra 4-6 teams have a shot at going into the city playoffs. Much like winning your conference tournament in the NCAA.

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  138. Give the DTA some credit for coming up with a good idea: A/B Flights in 4.5.

    But this year they should have included Brookhaven/Harllee & HP/Nguyen in the A group. Collin County/Philips and Village/Warren should have been in the B group. Hopefully the DTA can get it right next spring.

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  139. I was arguing for this season, not last season. My point is in the fall, it doesn't matter. Every deserving team will make the playoffs and only one team can win anyway so what's the difference? It was actually the same in the spring because only one team advanced. As long as the top team advances, the system is fine. In 4.0, that wasn't the case.

    BTW, Northwood moves to 17-3 today. You can put my team in the "B flight" every season.

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  140. The Lakes clinch a playoff spot with a win over Brookhaven today. Another head-scratching lineup for Brookhaven leads to a loss. It will now be a tough battle for second place with High Point in the driver's seat.

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  141. no one gives a crap about the fall season. its just an opportunity to manage scores.

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  142. Northwood is looking very impressive. They are the team to beat this fall.

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  143. Lifetime beats OC Boverman 3-2. LTF now 4-1. Sets up match of week vs RO. Lifetime wins 3-2. GO LIFETIME!

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  144. Lifetime beats OC Bovermann 3-2 today. LTF now 4-1. Set's up match week vs RO. LTF will win 3-2. LTF GOES TO 4.5 playoffs. GO LIFETIME!!!!!!

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  145. does anyone know who won the OC Feldman vs Greenhill match today?

    Or HP vs Oak Creek Herget?

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  146. I prefer the seeding of teams and trying to make the different subflights fairly even.

    Put the #1 and #4 seeds in one subflight and #2 and #3 in the other (or #1, #4, #5, and #8 in one and #2, #3, #6, and #7 in the other, etc.). It doesn't have to be that exact, but some general way of spreading out the top teams among the subflights would be good.

    It would also allow the better teams the opportunity to insert some other players in the lineup on weeks against less competitive teams and to make it easier for top players to sit out some weeks if they want to.

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  147. Good points. But what is the DTA process? And why do they keep it a secret?

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  148. OC Feldman 3 Greenhill 2

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  149. weymer will destroy all

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