Well Corey's big win started off the weekend then followed by a two OC/Smith wins at 3.5 to get them to 2-1 after an opening weekend loss. They may have lost in the polls but beat out High Point on the strength three wins by 3rd set TB'ers. Nice job!
4.5 had the big upset as the battle of the OC went to one of the ugly stepsisters (Team Bovermann) who took out Team Branch, so this flight should get real interesting now I believe because I don't think there will be an undefeated team now that Branch has lost so each match result should get more interesting.
The Lakes took out Eldorado and improved to 3-0 on the season. I know they haven't beaten a contender yet but they are gaining confidence week by week and in this flight they have to be in the top tier of favs to win this flight. Over the next three weeks they play Royal Oaks, High Point and then OC/Feldman. We will know soon if they are pretenders or contenders.
4.0 starts in a few hours. I will get to see Team Eddie at LBH and hopefully get you all back on track because we want team Eddie in the postseason for mere motivation.
Post what you know!
Sisk loses 2-3 today, we won 3-2 and LTF Eddie sweeps LB Houston
ReplyDeleteSr. Sectionals update: Uhhhh. Dallas did not do so well. The best showing was from OC's 4.5 crew which ended up 2nd in the Round robin format losing out on tiebreakers to the eventual winner.
ReplyDeleteI guess we need to need to start recruiting those 49 yr olds better. I can work on some fake id's for 2009.
Garland losing today was a shocker. I never saw that happening. I guess they are back after all.
ReplyDeleteWhy diss The Lakes 4.5 team? I would say beating TBarM (always a contender) was a quality win.
ReplyDeletejust when people start doubting HP somabut.....
ReplyDeleteHp won 3-2
ReplyDeleteSenior Sectionals 4.5
ReplyDeleteIt was a great weekend at Newks & TBar! We were one third set buster away in our match with San Antonio friday.
For a team that wasn't considered to be a contender we left it on the court this weekend. If that darn Buffalo could count to ten and win a super buster we would be off to Nationals!!!! Phil McGregor
Lakes 4.0 beat Stonebridge 4-1 with the loss being a 3rd set coman 11-9. Good match, good bunch of guys at stonebridge. Very competitive.
ReplyDeleteLakes 4.5 is a good team. They've been really improving against this competition. They have always been competitive, just know those little things are paying off and they are winning tough matches.
rockettman
How about Newman/Voss coming in and playing line 3 doubles and getting trounced. I was shocked to see that.
ReplyDeleteOberto and Flora are really good. I could think they would beat Newman and Voss. Flora is a new 3.5 moveup and Oberto moved up after the fall.
ReplyDeleteOberto and Flora kinda suck
ReplyDeletewho is kemp and nguyen?
ReplyDeleteWell said, Rocketman. This is really not rocket science (sorry, I had to use it)!
ReplyDeletePeople seem to be overly concerned about the past. What they don't get is it's not that big a deal to turn things around for any team.
All it takes is a committed captain, some new talent, and a committed bunch of guys. Look at Eddie's team, and this season Bazan's team. Way to go guys!
solid win by Flora/Oberto. I am a little shocked not by the win but the fact it wasn't all that closely contested. Bin and Jarad were on the Spring team and looks like they played John's 3rd best doubles team and beat them solidly.
ReplyDeleteDefeo. WOW! I hope he is playing some singles at nats this weekend. I don't know how Terrell didn't put up more of a fight. This one makes me scratch my head. The Russell loss makes sense because Jean is solid and Leonard and Mike had some tough opponents as well.
John are you rescheduling your 4.0 match or do you have enough for this coming weekend?
thanks for the congrats anon, I am doing my best but I think I was more nervous watching this week than playing, I am a freaking nervous wreck. I blame it on Rockettman he would have eased my queasy stomach by playing dubs today.
Way to go Lakes, it wouldn't be any fun if you don't make it to the end of November.
freudian slip, Cary?
ReplyDelete3.5 nationals aren't until the end of October - 4.0 is next weekend
Great job guys! Let's keep it up.
ReplyDeleteWho won the Garland v Eagles Landing match from Group C ???
ReplyDeleteoops. no I just checked the nats schedule today and I thought I was behind on writing something. sorry guys.
ReplyDeleteRe:Defeo over Stephen Terrell 1&0.
ReplyDeleteThat is not just a "Wow" but very skeptical. I've played Stephen this year, he is a borderline and competent 4.5 player and I've played Defeo this year as well, who is a 3.5 player and one of only a few of Garland's players that was not bumped up to 4.0. And there is a reason for that if you watch his game.
I know for a fact that there is more to that score than meets the eye.
Looks to me that Somabut has the "tank" on to protect Stephen from getting bumped up to 4.5.
Very, very suspicious.
I wouldn't make a whole lot from the result and get on Bob's case on this loss. Captains have enough to do getting 8 people to the court on Sat/Sundays, let alone figuring out Terrell was going to play a 3.5 and he should tank. I call this life in the "4.0 lane".
ReplyDeleteAlso, this is not the first time a 3.5 player beat a 4.0 player, and won't be the last.
Cary,
ReplyDeletewe all need challenges in life and it appears your team is up for it. Uneasy stomachs now will help in the future. Trust me, I turn some captains' stomachs at times too so it probably wouldnt have aided you much.
rockettman
A 3.5 player beating a 4.0 can happen, that is not what I am saying. But a 3.5 player blasting a 4.5 player 6-1, 6-0. Please. That is a "tank" job.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you don't think that Bob likes to "manage" scores, than you obviously have no clue.
I am not someone from the "sideline" but someone who actually plays these matches and have heard these conversations and know the levels of the two people in question.
Branch lost a match in the Fall?? Hmm... Let me see, Slezak lost to Frank Vo??? No offense Frank, but that's just... let me think... interesting?? Funny?? Doubtful??
ReplyDeleteKiron lost in doubles? How unusual, hopefully he was more tactful in his tank job this time.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou mentioned that you knew for a fact that there was more than met the eye regarding Terrell's result.
What fact do you have to back up your claim that he was asked to tank?
It's a serious charge to make, but it's important to disclose any information you have in order to stop something like this from occurring in the future Captains (and players) have to be held accountable.
I see that Terrell won his 4.5 match on Saturday against a 4.0 rated player. Is it possible that the match took something out of him? If Defeo is a pusher, could Terrell have been frustrated by that style of play? He wasn't considered good enough to play in the lineup on his 4.0 team at Sectionals, so it's a little unclear how strong a 4.0 player he is.
Defeo is now 3-0 in 4.0 singles and has two blowout wins. Is he a player who's more competitive in singles than doubles?
While Somabut is one of those captains who has a reputation for using the system to his advantage, I think it's more for adding players better than 4.0 to his team. Until there's evidence of him actually cheating it by managing scores, however, I'm afraid the charge is difficult to fully accept. It also looks to be out of character for Terrell to obviously throw a match.
The league can't take action if it doesn't know about it, so let's hear what you know.
Anon 7:23am,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you fully. I am kinda sick of this unfounded speculations - Terrell is not a 4.5 player, and I don't know Defeo, but he sounds to be a better player than 3.5.
And then there are these discussions about how teams are tanking because they want to be strong in spring. Just a bunch of crap - these guys should look for jobs in National Enquirer.
I'd have to agree that Kiron has had some results over the years that have looked questionable on the surface. Without a confession from him or a teammate, the truth may never be known.
ReplyDeleteI found it amazing that he started out playing 4.0 several years ago. He's shown that he's been able to consistently win at 5.0 and would do well there. He's obviously an excellent player.
I've played against Kiron in 4.0 and knew he would move up. Vu Le and Janasch from Lakes are also good examples of that - they started in 3.5 and are 4.5/5.0 players now.
ReplyDeleteI don't know that it's such a preposterous statement to make that there aren't at least some captains or players who might be willing to throw matches if they fear that their results might otherwise cause a bump in level. In fact, it seems a bit naive to me to think that it couldn't ever happen.
ReplyDeleteThe fall would make the most sense since those results aren't as important as spring.
The match was too important for Bob and HP to tank. All the embarassing remarks all week about HP being a has been, you would not play the guy this week rather than have him tank the match.
ReplyDeleteAnd it was over so quick u couldn't say that it was already decided. Plus defeo has proven himself to be a good player already.
ReplyDeleteTanking would not be it. If it was a 4 1 victory and they knew it was a win... Only then would I began question it.
Egles Landing beat Garland 3-2.
ReplyDeleteVery closely contested. 4 mataches went to 3rd set tie-breakers. Some excellent tennis. Congratulations to Eagles Landing. Looking forward to playing them again.
Jerry Defeo beat Glenn Flora this weekend. That makes him a 5.0+ superstar. That explains the dominance on Sunday right? His days of playing 3.5 are surely over.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Frank Vo is a solid singles player and I don't believe Chris plays singles anymore. It was a surprising result to me but not shocking. I was definitely surprised by the doubles result, but we will find out as those are the next two teams we face.
At 4.5, the only result not yet reported is Brookhaven/High Point? Anyone know the details of the outcome?
ReplyDeleteAnon 8:21am,
ReplyDeleteYou don't seem to get it, many of us are not saying there aren't captains who do it. But just don't just sit there and hypothesize... and keep making such preposterous claims.
I noticed that Nick Smith was on OC-Branch's roster.
ReplyDeleteNick seems to be one of the better singles players in men's open tournament play! Is this legit?
Nick Smith was already talked about in length. You are correct and I would guess his 4.5 self rating will be corrected to a 5.0 by the computer at the end of year ratings. No need to continue the discussion here.
ReplyDeleteFrank Vo is a quality 4.5 - I would bet his win was legit. Slezak is pretty much a doubles player these days. He played 2 singles matches last fall and went 1-1 getting spanked in one match 2&2 and winning the other in a 3rd set tb.
ReplyDeleteI did a site search and couldn't find the discussion. Does anyone have the link?
ReplyDeleteI did not tank my match yesterday so this has nothing to do with Bob...Defeo played a great match..I was just in a rush to get home to watch football...no really Defeo is not a 3.5 player..I hope to see him again sometime in the future.
ReplyDeletestephen
Cary what happened in FTW?
ReplyDeleteSaw Curtis threw you to the young wolf. Hopefully you got stitched up ok.
Oh yeah incase anyone cares I managed another win yesterday in my debut at 7.5 Combo league. You see MOSES can play. ;)
If Rusty needs Nick Smith on his team for the Spring, you will see him "lose" some fall matches. Mark my words he'll be on their team in the spring and the computer will have no choice.
ReplyDeleteThat was not a tank job on Sunday! Jerry's forehand is a killer in doubles! Put one man less on the court and that forehand opens up to being very destructive! I know I have seen it up close.
ReplyDeleteSo, for all you guys crying about Bob asking someone to sand bag I am afraid you are very wrong. Plus, if you were not there to actually see the match you might want to hold back on your thoughts about how a matched turned out. HP has a great team with some very physically strong players. I would not advise getting into 3rd set tie breaks with this team. They are talented and conditioned. Congrats to HP for their win and good luck the rest of the season.
Jerry is good and his game is made for singles and it now showing. I may have lost my doubles partner for nationals but after seeing what he can do I don't give a damn. I will play with whoever Big John chooses.
OK anonymous, I'll mark your words. Just because someone self rates and loses a couple of fall matches the end of year computer ratings will still look at past Open tourney results and factor those in. I'm betting Nick will be a 5.0 when they come out regardless of what he does this fall. Mark my words.
ReplyDeleteI feel bad for Southlake and all other teams that have to waste their time playing Bazan at 4.5. Thank you for not joining a Dallas 4.5 team Cary.
ReplyDeletewhy fell bad for the other team, at least Cary is balling up and playing up, rather than sitting at home eating cheetos, typing anonymously on a blog, in between John Holmes money shots.
ReplyDeleteGet a life.
Anon - September 22, 2008 12:04 PM -
ReplyDeleteWhat someone does in Open tournament play or rankings has ZERO bearing or rellevance on NTRP ratings. I am not passing judgement whether this is good or bad, just giving you the rules/facts on this topic since you care enough to blog on the subject and have peole 'marking your words.'
I don't think that will DQ him for Nationals. It was one match. I think they did the DQs alreaady anyway.
ReplyDeleteSo... Rock, are you telling us you have been the parachute on his game the whole time then?? Ha ha. just kidding.
(BTW, that means, not stopping him, but just slowing him down a whole bunch)
for the ones who are clueless the matches played in the FALL 2009!! league will not hinder anyone going to Nationals, so 3.5 guys go ahead and blast away the 4.5 hacks.
ReplyDeleteI believe the matches count in the Final 2008 ratings but not 100% positive.
Glad to lend a hand on this one MOSES. You are, AS ALWAYS, correct with your assumption. matches DO count in the Final 2008 ratings, but nothing to do with Natiionals.
ReplyDeleteMOSES - i am not doubting your greatness and you know i am a fan, but your last blogs DO seem a little testy and on edge. it is only Monday, so let's pace ourselves.
You are incorrect in saying Open tourney play won't matter. Tourney play is factored into end of year ratings, just not mid-season ratings. Thanks for your rules/facts but they aren't facts when you're wrong.
ReplyDeleteActually, didnt he say league play? Not tourney play? So shouldn't you read what he says before you start making yourself look silly?
ReplyDeleteOk - you keep believing that "open" tourney play will affect a 4.0, 4.5 or 5.0 - it won't.
ReplyDeleteIf a 4.5 beats Federer in a T Bar M USTA Men's Open Tourney - it would not count or hurt/help his 4.5 rating.
Feel free to contact the TTA and ask them yourself. I am not going to do any more of your homework for you though. I thought about giving you the # to call, but that would be too easy.
Let us know what you find out.
whatever you say dude. Could care less what you think.
ReplyDeleteopen level tournaments probably do not count in NTRP ratings due to the fatc that many times the players do not have a rating, due to being a junior or never play(ed) usta league tennis. A rating though can be garnered by playing NTRP Level Tournaments.
ReplyDeleteJason,
ReplyDeleteI can't believe you called me out and sure enough you woke up crazy anon guy who thinks I am ruining 4.5 tennis. BTW, Brian Joseph said HI. He says you should move back, we need you, we had to default a line which is why I got moved to singles. I was suppose to play line 3 dubs but got moved up to singles, EEEK! Of course I got to play Greg who went undefeated at sectionals, not quite the first opponent I had in mind but I enjoyed it.
We started talking and I told him I played in Dallas and he said, "they are really into it over there, did you know they have a tennis blog over there?" Hmmmm. I might have heard of it. The Southlake team was very hospitable, no crazies on the team in fact they offered to keep playing after they walloped us. Not that I had a chance against Greg but our 2nd set was much closer than the first set, I don't have stats but I am pretty sure I had at least 4 break points and convereted ZERO. Every time I thought I could get a break and make it interesting he would throw in some nasty kick serve and then follow it into the net and he would volley right off the court. He is a very solid player and a nice guy. I do look forward to playing some dubs but I am willing to thrown in wherever works best.
did not mean to call out,just saw you got fed to the youg lion.
ReplyDeleteSouthlake always been a fun team to be around. Hope you're likig the Goldfield guys, they are a great group.
As for Anon, tell him to go... wait I am trying to be a better person.. Damn it!!
I'm sure Greg had fun and the second set was very tight. With Robin and a guy that wishes he still lives in Dallas I have no idea how tennis gets a reputation for being a gay sport.
ReplyDeleteDat a Boy MOSES.
ReplyDeleteYou self control was amazing and you are making progress....
Keep up the good work.
I don't understand this mentality of accepting that someone possibly rated incorrectly and waiting for the end of year ratings to work everything out. It's not fair to that person or to the people he has to play if a person is playing at the wrong level.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that it happened here, but if a player answers the self-rate questionnaire dishonestly, then he shouldn't be allowed to play at the lower level. He should probably also be subject to possible sanctioning.
Anon 8:41- not following along - who are we talking about and what did this person do wrong possibly. you mention sanctioning someone - what for.
ReplyDeleteI think we're generally talking about the post made at September 22, 2008 9:52 AM.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, can you prove someone answered dishonestly or are you just going to be pissed if they answered honestly and still beat you. Seems like everyone on here is just mad at people who are better than they are. No one likes to lose but why does it seem as though everyone on here is convinced that if they lost, the person that beat them must be out of level? Maybe your just not that good at the level your playing and you should go practice and get better instead of constantly bitching about something you can't prove, fix, or rectify except by getting better and winning matches.
ReplyDeleteso let me see if a 4.5 Captain sees a player signs-up and self-rates as a 4.5. They do some research and see that the player was a Top 6 Player on a Top 20 ranked D2 school and graduated 1 year prior.
ReplyDeleteYou would have no problem with this player then, even though USTA guidelines and the Self-rate form if filled out honestly would have automatically given a 5.5 rating?
Or how about a former D1 player and #1 Junior in Super Champs comes in Self-rates as a 4.5 only 6 years out of High School?
Those are real examples of players in Texas and Southern Sections that have self-rate as 4.0 and 4.5 players.
Now do you see an issue?
Generally speaking, as long as you didn't play D1 or on a ranked smaller college school, you can legally self rate as 4.5.
ReplyDeleteSo I doubt anyone has a valid complaint on Nick Smith regardless of how well he has done playing Open.
Yes - I think we see the issue in these situations AR. When this happens in Dallas - someone should file a grievance with the TTA or DTA. I believe now,with the blogs, noone will get away with it, bc it will be picked up in the fall when it needs to be adressed.
ReplyDeleteIn this case that, we seem to be talking at great length about Nick Smith and some are trying to paint a picture that Nick did something illegal or dishones. I disagree.
the system is not perfect - we al know this fact, but it's the system we have and most teams are trying to get the best team possible within the system. There is no harm in this.
Here are two examples : we all know players who played d1 or d2 several years back, got fat and are not that great anymore. By the letter of the law, they can not self rate lower than a 5.5 - even though they will get killed at 5.5. I get it, it may not make sense, but that is the rule.
On the other hand, there are players, such as Nick Smith who do not fit into the self rate system, bc they did not play d1,d2,or were not top ranked d3. These players can get very good after the fact and play a season at the level that the computer allows them to play at. This player becomes the diamond in the rough so to speak and most captains would be disengious if they were to act holier than though and say "i would not have that person on my team." - Good for you if that is your stance, but that does not make it wrong. It gets even stickier - Nick could, by computer standards, have self rated a 4.0 or 4.5. Guaranteed.
Players like this are legit and i say good job to the teams who find and recruit them. If anything, we all benefit by adding new - top notch players to the Dallas leagues, assuming they are legit (this we can agree on)
The key issue to understand is that Open or Age based play, results, or rankings is irrellevant in the NTRP system. Until one accepts this point as being valid - there will be debate and accusations will fly.
For anyone who not self-rated or seen the questions : They will NEVER ask about anything other than College Tennis Rankings or JR Tennis Rankings. After answering those questions accurately - the computer will then give you two options a low option and a high option. In Nicks case, the computer would have given him a 4.0 or a 4.5 option - that is it. He evedintly chose the 4.5 option.
Accusing him of cheating or being dishonest is uninformed.
as for the self-rates, players can appeal their ratings, as one mentioned a player may have played college D1, but played lower line-up and had losing record. Have a player looking at my 8.5 combo team, who played D1 and graduated in 2003, self-rated and slapped him with 6.0 rating appeal to Southern has brought him down to 5.0.
ReplyDeleteNo problem with someone appealing in good faith.
Common sense, many years history of good results at Open tournaments, not a 4.5 player. Filling out a self-rate form for this player and giving them a 4.5 rating to play on your team when the form should have led the player to 5.0 or above, cheating and dishonest. Justify it all you want in your head and on this blog but it's still cheating and it will catch up to you.
ReplyDeleteSisk... is that you?
ReplyDeleteif people are so worried about nick Smith then use his record. Pull his results and show that he is consistently beating 5.0 level players. The 2-3 years I looked at did not show this. Do I think he is a 4.5 player, no but my opinion means squat coming from AR, but there does not appear to be anything keeping him from playing 4.5.
ReplyDeleteThat is correct. Open and age level tournament matches do not count against your NTRP rating. Also agree with anon 7:59. You play at the level the people/computer tell you to play at. I've played at 2 levels for years. The level I'm rated at and the one above me. I've had decent sucess at the higher level. Winning 40-50% of those matches. The computer keeps rating me at the lower level. Where would you play? Not all but most play what the computer tells you to play. That is what most people do. Sounds like that is what Nick Smith did. Lying on a self-rate form is different but does not sound like something that took place in this case. If you lie on self-rate, then you should get booted. Playing at the level the computer tells you play is where pretty much all players start in this NTRP league thing. No system is perfect but this one is a million percent better than the old system of visual ratings. Those of you that complain and feel you are the all knowing NTRP baramoter, suggest a better system.
ReplyDeleteI hope that no one is accusing this particular player or his captain of being dishonest on the self-rating form unless they have additional information. It's simply not fair to him if he's done nothing wrong.
ReplyDeleteBefore on-line self-rating was implemented a few years ago, the Texas Section would ask about past rankings, highest level of USTA league play, and other information on the paper form that had to be filled out. They would overturn a player's self-rating if they thought that player's background was better suited to another level. This was even if the experienced player guidelines that are based on age and level of high school, college, professional play, etc, suggested the level the player decided to rate. I don't know what's asked online, but I'd bet this scrutiny has been relaxed.
I hope all people are asking is that players be assigned and play at the appropriate level based on their ability. Right now, self-rating provides the biggest challenge to that ideal followed by managing scores and results. Unfortunately, there's probably no easy way to eliminate either abuse. For better or worse, we're stuck with the system we have.
Still going back and forth on Nick Smith. Hmmm, don't think sides will come to agreement on it. Time to move on and let the league decide people. Stop beating a dead horse with your articles of babble that no one reads.
ReplyDeletethanks Judge Judy
ReplyDeleteFor those keeping score at home :
ReplyDelete1 point for the Judge Judy comment - that was funny and pure and out of nowhere.
.5 point for the dumbass response - clever comeback, but had to deduct a quarter of a point for lack of sensor-ship and another quarter point bc it was a response to a previos name call - somewhat lacked creativity, but funny nonetheless. also - the judge judy comment was not a dumb comment, but a smart ass comment - smart-ass would have gotten you .75points.
sorry anonymous you lose 1/4 pt for not spelling censor correctly.
ReplyDeleteHere are results from 2002-2008:
ReplyDeletehttp://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/Rankings/PlayerRecord.aspx?id=43801&p=114 - 2002http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/Rankings/PlayerRecord.aspx?id=43307&p=345 - 2003
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/Rankings/PlayerRecords.aspx?id=92462&p=22 - 2004
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/Rankings/PlayerRecords.aspx?id=184787&p=25 - 2005
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/Rankings/PlayerRecords.aspx?id=290220&p=37 - 2006
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/Rankings/PlayerRecords.aspx?id=404270&p=25 - 2007
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/Rankings/PlayerRecords.aspx?id=498110&p=20 - 2008
I don't know enough of the players, but I'm not sure he lost to any 4.5s. He beat several, some of them pretty soundly. He went 4-0 against Kevin Durten, one of the better 4.5s.
He also was 1-1 with Bradford Judson (see also http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/Draws/EventDraw.aspx?T=36768&E=21), with the one loss in three sets. He went 1-0 against Rodney Hinze. Both these players have been playing 5.0 for years. He also went 2-3 against Chris Walker, a very solid 5.0. One of those losses also went to a third set.
Not sure about Marco Valdez's rating, but Marco beat him in a third-set tiebreaker and has been one of the better players in men's open over the years.
Based on his tournament results, it looks as though he's competitive with 5.0s and winning consistently against 4.5s.
Awesome! Now I have something to read when I want to fall sound asleep
ReplyDeleteAwesome! Now I have something to read when I want to fall sound asleep
ReplyDeleteOBSESSIVE/COMPULSIVE comes to mind.
ReplyDeleteOne word comes to my mind.....stalker
ReplyDeleteDid the BH/HP 4.5 match not get played last weekend?
ReplyDeletemost of HP's guys were playing sr. sectionals - we are playing this wekend.
ReplyDeleteThanks, it should be a great match up.
ReplyDelete