3.5
Flight A looks to be very tight and it will come to the final day. Brookhaven is a lock but the other spot is still up for grabs between CC, HP and LTF. CC controls their own destiny. If they beat HP they are in no matter what. If they lose they are out. If HP wins and LTF wins it comes down to who does it most impressively as they are in a virtual tie.
Flight B......................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Yep unless Greenhill falls asleep at the wheel they are in even with a close loss in their final match.
Flight C
CC and Sam Grand look to be locks but it is not quite for sure yet.
4.5
Well Royal Oaks didn't bring out Ivan Drago and still won, but bringing out Joey Molina isn't a bad 2nd option. Feldman now has a showdown with HP/Pham for the 2nd playoff spot. Winner goes and loser stays home.
Flight A will come down to how Corey decides to play his lineup v. BH in the final match and if BH can beat a lesser lineup that Corey has advertised. I have a feeling it will be close.
I would have to consult AR Hacker to find out when Rusty last missed any type of playoff round, 2001???? It looks like it might happen though.
4.0
I am headed off for our match, Jim has already spotted us line 2 singles so we will see how the rest goes. Garland told me they have rescheduled their LBH/Hicks match for 11/8 so they will have to check and see upon returing from AZ if OC/Smith or HP/Somabut faltered and gave them a shot at the final spot.
Did Harvey play for Westlake this week? Maybe an early match?
ReplyDeleteYes.
ReplyDeleteBrookhaven could still miss the playoffs. Small chance but possible.
ReplyDeleteMolina played Zimmerman, RO has 8 guys that can beat him! Who cares about the Russian, that guy isn't that good!
ReplyDeleteNot impressed!
Wow Anonymous sure can talk a big game behind a fictious screen.
ReplyDeleteI am guessing you have drive a big truck and talk shit to compensate.
I have something of a problem with the play early or later thing. Part of team league tennis is having players available each week.
ReplyDeleteMaybe we could get one guy to play all of his matches the first week of the season and he could then play a different league as well so it does not interfere.
I don't know if it is against the rules or not but I just think it is againt the spirit of team tennis.
Normally, I would agree for normal scheduling.
ReplyDeleteHowever, for play-offs and major tournaments is more acceptable than scheduling around normal schedule conflicts.
I think it is part of team tennis. It is played at the same time. In any other team sport, they play as a team and lose as a team. If someone's schedule conflicts, that is how it goes.
ReplyDeleteIt does seem a little odd that Westlake would care enough to get Harvey in early in the week since they are clinched already. I think unless you have the majority or half your players commited to another USTA event than you should play the match, just my thought.
ReplyDeleteif you are missing two of your players and they happen to be the best than you have 14 other guys that can play, oh well whatever.
just got back from beating Springpark. next on deck for demolition: HP and LTF and whatever 3rd team gets put in our flight.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBob and Eddie,
ReplyDeleteI flirted with the idea of avoiding you all but for some reason all my guys realllllly want to beat you all.
Sorry I tried but sayonara!
I don't have a problem with a team rescheduling individual matches, but in my opinion it is always an attempt by the captain to cover up vulnerabilities he has at the originally scheduled time. I would say it is in the opposing captain's best interest to not allow the match to be rescheduled 95 percent of the time.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, it is nice to have the flexibility and camaraderie between the captains to work it out where both teams can play their best players.
We have played several matches this year on days other than Saturday.
If a captain won't be a little flexible then that is just the yellow streak showing.
ReplyDeleteIt's a freaking league tennis match and maybe some people have kids/family to also take care of.
Personally, I think it should be played when it is scheduled. I do not get to play many matches because I have 4 kids (i.e soccer, baseball, swimming, school functions & misc other things). My kids are more important and other teams should not be inconvenienced because I choose to go to my kids's events rather than play tennis. For me, it has nothing to do with being scared, it is courtesy for the other team.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the Cowboys can reschedule their games until Romo is healthy.
Greg is right on. Captains can agree but there is still an inconvenience.
ReplyDeleteIf its inconvenient then the opposing captain should not agree. Some people in this league believe it or not just want to play some good tennis and if there schedule is open, they really don't care when the match is played. Frankly, the main reason I hate Fall leagues is it always interferes with football games (both college on Saturdays and NFL on Sundays). I would not personally ask a captain to work around these events as it is an issue I was well aware of before I signed up. On the other hand, if a captain asked if I could play at a time that freed up my football watching days, personally I am thrilled and have no problem with it.
ReplyDeleteThis should be a poll.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to play a good match when your schedule is open, you could play a person for the fun of it. You could even play that person just to find out what would have happened. If you cannot show up at a match, you should not be able to play it.
ReplyDeleteAlso, some people will agree to do something when asked even if they don't want to do it. They are agreeable to be agreeable.
As a captain, I have been asked and told them no way. I was then cussed out for not being agreeable. I was also called scared. Yet, by standing firm, I was never asked again.
The problem is that most of you guys take this way too seriously. We are 3.5ers and most are in there 30s, 40, 50s and perhaps older. Nobody in this group is going to win wimbledon anytime soon, so ease up. As long as it's not a regular thing, what's the big deal in re-scheduling a match to accomodate someone every now and again. What is not right, are the true ringers that should be playing up, that have a match re-scheduled for the sake of beating someone 0 & 1 or whatever. What's the fun in that. Be a man and play up even if it means losing every now and again....And the worst part is when you get bumped up yet keep playing tournies at the lower level to try and collect trophies. What's the matter, didn't you get any when you where 9?
ReplyDeleteWeird part is why Westlake even bothered. They won the match easily with their other lines. If the play-offs are round robin, you wouldn't think the number of lines won would matter to them. Why bother having Harvey play in the match by rescheduling?
ReplyDeleteTeam sports are team sports. Schedules are schedules. You are allowed to have more than 8 on your roster to avoid scheduling problems. Once the match has been set, it should be played. No exceptions. Play the best 8 you can field at the scheduled time or take the default. Enough said. Now get over it.
ReplyDeleteIt would help if starting times for all league matches were set by USTA. Same time every weekend. Don't give one team or the other the option of deciding starting time. Also avoids a captain having to schedule around all his teams personal needs. I'm always amazed how whiny grown men can be. You're wife and kids schedules aren't my problem.
ReplyDeleteNo, but sometimes I need to work around your wifes' schedule.....
ReplyDeleteKinda like me and your sister's schedule...
ReplyDeletethe biggest reason i have seen for rescheduling is the lack of consistency in start times...sometimes you need to be able to plan ahead and the times aren't published
ReplyDeleteOften times it is the facility that determines start times and that is the reason it is hard for the DTA to set start times. Count me in for the matches should be played when scheduled.
ReplyDeletewhy is the Russian not playing for Royal Oaks any more.
ReplyDeleteRumor is that someone filed a grievance against the 18 year old kid. It will be sad if someone did that. Has anyone heard - if so, who filed the grievance.
You did.
ReplyDeletecurious to see how a grievance would hold up aginst the CCCC Player because he technically meets the guidelines set forth by USTA, he played at a JUCO, he is not playing at a College right now by all accounts.
ReplyDeleteIt will be a joke if he gets the DQ, because the USTA allowed players like Wanja, Broach, Heim, etc compete at 4.5.
Hell even Maingot with a verified LOI to a D1 School was allowed to play, not taking into account the TAMU-CC coach is a scum bag for reneging on the LOI.
Who says he's not playing for RO anymore? Just b/c he didn't play on Saturday doesn't mean anything. They are probably trying to protect him and he wasn't needed.
ReplyDeleteNovember 1 is a big Russian holiday. I'm sure he observes it.
ReplyDeleteпраздник отсутствие шариков
Big deal among that sort...
very appropriate according to yahoo babel fish.
CARY....
ReplyDeleteBring the noise big fella!!! Make sure all those guys that convinced you to stay in our flight bring their A++ games when we play. We will not lose to anyone. To bad we won't meet in the final.
Eddie
glad you brought up Broach, He went through an entire season at 4.5 with no DQ, in a year that included a win over Adrian Valdez in Open play. By the way Adrian would punk this kid!
ReplyDeletePLAYOFFS SEEDING ALL BUT SET. for 4.0
ReplyDelete1. Brookhaven/Pearlman
2. HP/Bazaan
3. HP/But
4. Lakes
5. Lifetime/Hill
6. Greenhill
7. Oak Creek
8. Brookhaven/Helt
Blue Flight
1. Brookhaven
4. Lakes
7. Oak Creek
8. Brookhaven/Helt
Red Flight
2. HP/Bazaan
3. HP/But
5. Lifetime/Hill
6. Greenhill
Who ever made this call looks to be right. DTA will put it out next week, but this seems to be it.
Interesting match-ups. HP Varsity(Somabut) and HP JV (Bazaan) in the same bracket. Both will take L's from Lifetime. Brookhaven comes out of the much weaker other flight.
Brookhave and LTF in the Final should be interesting seeing that they met first week of fall without Forrest. Could be fireworks if that is the deciding match.
How bad would that be for Bazaan, if he goes 0-3 in his playoff flight after talking so much trash towards the end of the season. I hope he doesn't get mad and shut down the blog.
ReplyDeleteI hope Cary does play after talking so much lately. His game is terrible and so are his chances of his team winning theDCC
ReplyDeleteThat would be hilarious. It is more likely that they will go 1-2 in that flight, but the HP JV (Bazaan) could definitely go 0-3 at DCC and be done Sat. afternoon. That would be beautiful. I can't wait to see the blog entry that Sunday!
ReplyDeleteReally does not matter what they go because Lifetime will win it all in a Landslide anyway. Kind of like the Democrats tomorrow night.
What's funny about Eddie's team is that there are at least a couple big time lobbying democrats on that team, yet they will not publically admit to it in a social setting. I guess I'd be embarrased if Obama gets elected too.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know what happened with the match against HP/Bazan and SpringPark line 3 doubles.
ReplyDeleteI'm with you the line 3 seems very fishy. Cary's two best players are play line 3 doubles and losing 6 - 1 , 5 - 1 and their opponents retire. C'mon Cary man up you sent your boys out to tank and they got caught didn't they.
ReplyDeleteIf that's true that is really lame. Playing out of level is one thing but tanking matches. Please tell us that isn't what was happening Cary. I would have to have a broken leg to retire leading 6-1, 5-1. Even then in doubles I could sit down and let my partner try to serve it out.
ReplyDeleteno habla ingles?
ReplyDeleteI don't know the particulars of how it happened I was busy getting my ass kicked.
Jim Walters did give me the how to tank matches handbook after the match so we will be following this manual during the DCC, we apologize for any confusion.
I think Steven and Noaman are just playing really bad right now Eddie should really come after them in singles in a few weeks.
how about Team Somabut, did they tank singles to stay out of Lucky Thunder's flight or do their singles players just really suck this season.
ReplyDeletePlaying your two best singles players at doubles so they don't dominate and have a close match for ratings is fine. For them to hit the fence with their serves is more than just cheating, it is bad sportsmanship and insulting to their opponents
ReplyDeleteIs winning without character worth winning?
ReplyDeleteI think there are at least two or three teams in the 4.0 division that will say that winning no matter how you do it is all that matters. Just because you cross the line first does not make you the best. It is how high you can hold your head after you cross the line that matters. To the players on those teams that have coaches/players willing to bend the rules, you should remember that you are guilty by association.
STEVE KENT does not tank matches. STEVE KENT was practicing his left handed strokes. Whatever Eddie can do STEVE KENT can do better. Now STEVE KENT is angry. STEVE KENT is bringing his cooler full of whoop a## to the playoffs, and he will bring enough for everyone.
ReplyDeleteYou notice how Cary was quick to put out new streams this week so people could forget about the BS his team pulled last week. I can promise you I will not let it die. What terrible sportsmanship and leadership by him. They disgrace the sport. I feel bad for Don and Cliff for having to go through that. I would have been cursing those guys out. Jim Walters should file a grievence with the DTA and USTA to ban Cary from Captaining and ban those 2 guys from 4.0. That is disgraceful. JIM PLEASE FILE a Grievence!!!!
ReplyDeleteCary you are a coward. Now you are tying to attach Jim. Take responsibility for your actions and poor sportsmanship. I really do hope something is done. If you tried that crap agains me I would be at the DTA office the next morning trying to get you and those players kicked out of 4.0. How stupid is that. Noaman is a 4.5 bump down and Kent is easily a 4.5 player. What BS. I agree with the guy above. FILE A GRIEVENCE JIM!!!!!! FILE A GRIEVENCE JIM!!!!!! FILE A GRIEVENCE JIM!!!!!! FILE A GRIEVENCE JIM!!!!!! FILE A GRIEVENCE JIM!!!!!! FILE A GRIEVENCE JIM!!!!!! FILE A GRIEVENCE JIM!!!!!! FILE A GRIEVENCE JIM!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteGET THOSE 3 GUYS KICKED OUT OF 4.0 RIGHT AWAY!!
I have met Noaman and he seemed like a standup guy. This story surprises me if it really went down like that.
ReplyDeleteI've played Steve Kent before in a High Point league. There was no reason for him to tank that match. He is not a 4.5 player. He is an average 4.0. If he is on, then he is a low level 4.5; if he is average, he is a 4.0; if he is bad, he is a high 3.5. He hits the ball hard but b ut many hit the back fence and his serve is very iffy. Anybody who thinks Steve Kent is a ringer... does not know a ringer. In fairness, Steve Kent thinks Steve Kent is a ringer.
ReplyDeleteI have never met or played Noaman.
Cary, I can barely stumache reading your entries any more. That is just sick. My only goal at this point is to make sure you don't get to Captain a team ever agian and that you 3 guys get bumped to 4.5 to get your asses handed to you. How disrectful to do that to Don and Cliff. If I was those guys I might have walked on your court and spit on you.
ReplyDeleteanon, if you review which I am sure you do I post every Tuesday morning so I didn't do anything out of the ordinary, just trying to give you material.
ReplyDeleteAs i have said I don't mind the anons they are my friends, I think.
I think it is funny though that you want Jim to come against me since you are probably the same anon who thought Gene and Mitch playing 4.0 tennis was a disgrace.
No not really with Gene and Mitch. They came to play every match and did not disrespect their opponents and certainly did not tank matches.
ReplyDeleteMitch is a 4.0 look at his record. Also Gene never tanked a match and if I remember correctly no one ever said anything bad about him. Most of the things that were posted about Gene were postive comments. I really hope this comes back to bite you Carey. Also your comment about those two guys playing bad it sure was funny after the match and they started hitting together and not missing a shot.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be missing the boat here Cary. We are adults and have lives. We are playing tennis to compete and have challenging matches. If this went down as it seems to, you have to see how disrespectful it is for you and your guys to come out there and not give someone a hard fought match. There is an honor that comes from competing and giving your best and knowing that the guy you are playing is giving his best. What happened Sunday seems to be most dishonorable. How would you explain your sportsmanship in this case to your child? You really should be ashamed and embarrassed.
ReplyDeleteI am embarrassed for you, because I consider you a friend. Eddie
I don't play for H.P. or LTF but I have played against Steve and Noaman in the past. Those two guy are not doubles players-at all. A loss like that does not surprise me.
ReplyDeleteCome on now. So the other team retired because it was too hot??? Come on. You don't have to be a doubles player to play doubles. those 2 guys serve well, can play the net well enough, and have very strong ground stroke and lobs. That is BS. I hate doubles and don't play it much at all, but I don't lose when I play, because I am a good player. Those guys are good players.
ReplyDelete1-6 and 1-5. Come on!!!
ReplyDeleteGene didn't tank. He just managed his scores. Is there a difference?
ReplyDeleteGene gave numerous games away to lucky thunder I saw that match, and yes some balls hit the fence that day but as soon as the match was even at 2-2 Gene magically won every single game. How is that different? poor LT thought he was a top 4.0 after that, now he can't even beat Jim Walters.
ReplyDeleteCan someone who was there please explain this match. Were the two guys laughing and being assholes as they purposely hit balls into the net or fence, or were they trying for three or four games got down early and started being assholes once it appeared they were not going to win.
ReplyDeleteI am a 4.5 player and really don't know any of these 4 guys, but if they walked onto that court knowing full well they were about to waste a little over an hour of their opponents time by laughing it off and trying to lose, they frankly are pussies. Why don't you man up and bring your game up here to the big boys? You play out of HP - do you not think you could break the starting lineup of Pham's or Loose's squad?
remember your rule cary, don't talk back to the anons, they will annoy you to no end. It is usually just one nut job, like the crazy guy who posted 80 times about getz and then 100 times about how some clerk at the DTA is making playoff brackets.
ReplyDeletecary,
remember how everyone liked you when you were 2-5 and almost winning matches, welcome to the winning side of things, nobody likes you up here
Don't try to give him an easy out. That is not what this is about. What they did was wrong. No one is picking on Cary. Tanking matches is just poor sportsmanship and those that do it should get automatic bump ups or not be allowed to compete.
ReplyDeleteTanking is part of the game, but for God's sake be good at it. At least throw out some cuss words and throw your raquet a time or two so it looks like you are trying.
ReplyDeleteNot a part of my game or anyone on our teams game. That is BS.
ReplyDeleteIf some of you guy's were better STEVE KENT wouldn't have to tank. All you crappy players should move down to 3.0 were you belong so STEVE KENT can show his true talent.
ReplyDeleteHey, I don't know if they tanked or not. But what I do know is that I have personally played Noaman. He is a very strong player and no matter the pace I nailed shots at him at the net, he put them away with little difficulty. Never seen him play doubles, but if I can win at doubles, I'm positive he would be able to kill at doubles, especially at the #3 position.
ReplyDeleteEveryone knows that Cary sometimes "calls off his dogs" in light of the bigger picture. That's fine. But in all reality, if someone is up 6-1, 5-1 and concede the match in defeat, just how blatant could that match have been.
I personally stink at this 4.0 level, but getting better. But when I played 3.5 and was killing people, I would ask occasionally if they minded that I played "hard" and the reply usually was that they wanted my best match.
It is just not fair to your opponent to cheat them by not giving it 100%.
Just because I double falted 12 straight times does not mean I was tanking the match. I just wanted to see how great a comeback we could make and then those cowards quit on us.
ReplyDeleteMay be time the DTA made an example out of this by banning HP from the playoffs. Being that it is a team sport the entire team should be held accountable. They cheat as a team, they pay as a team. And yes, I consider tanking as cheating. Face it Cary, you got caught. Take some responsibility.
ReplyDeleteyeah. we were right there. Had them right where we wanted them. Then they just gave up. By the way, what's wrong with a little "tanking" amongst friends.
ReplyDeleteNot that we would do that...
why are people getting so upset, Cary said it was ok. We did this all last spring and no one seemed to care then. Why do you think we practice so much on Wed nights. First hour we work hard on our games. Next 2 hours we drink and practice our "tanking". Doesn't everyone do that? Cary has been tanking matches for years. Look at his match record.
ReplyDeleteI hope the DTA DQ's them and boots them from the playoffs. Put TBar M or Garland/Sisk in. They would be much better reps.
ReplyDeleteBecause of all this I have decided to officially resign my post as President of the Lucky Thunder Fan Club. I am ashamed and embarrassed too Eddie.
ReplyDeleteJane Gilpin
Dallas Tennis Association
I just looked up Noaman and Kent's record. It looks like they both suck. Why would they tank? They are both barely .500 for the year.
ReplyDeleteyou are either retarded or on their team if you think they are average or .500. They have been tanking matches all year with bazan's blessings. I witnessed kent's match at LB Houston's on 9/21/08. Kent threw the first and blasted his opponent 6-1 in the second set and then Cary went up to him and told him to tank the third set tie breaker. It was a joke to watch as Nelson Orta should have quit in disgust as well. Kent would serve to start the point and when Nelson returned it, Steve wouldn't even take a step in the direction of the ball, even if it was just a few feet away. This is bull crap at it's best and there should be no place for these guys in our league. Kent went on to his next match on 9/28/08 and did the same thing. Lost the first, blasted away on the second 6-1 and tanked the third. Hopefully someone like Fernando contreras or Forrest goes into Dcc and really kicks his sandbagging @as!!!
ReplyDeleteCary! Welcome to the club! This just means that regardless of accusations of tanking you are still the team to beat! Big John and I have a seat for you on the get to nationals committee. But, I have a feeling these 2 guys maybe just need more doubles play together? Flukes do occur I mean Geez I beat Jonathan twice at 3.5 and I begged him to play "hard"!
ReplyDeleteSomething really should be done about this. File a grievence Jim Walters. Please. The captains of those other teams that they did this against can file grievences as well. If they get 3 or more letters from Captains on this they will have a Grievence Hearing and take action.
ReplyDeleteI don't play on Team/Bazan but have watched Kent play a number of times. I have never thought of Steve as anything but an average 4.0 player.
ReplyDeleteFunny. I saw Steve play a couple of weeks ago and said to myself "that's Steve Kent? He's just middle of the road 4.0".
ReplyDeleteYou must have watched him tank a match. I have seen him play full speed and there is no question that he is a 4.5 level player.
ReplyDeleteThe argument here is not weather he is 4.0 or 4.5. It is that they played in a match that they tanked so bad the other team "retired" while up 6-1 and 5-1 just to make a point. I know one of the guys that retired. He is a great dude. Older guy that has been playing for years and not afraid to call "Bullsh*t" on someone for this type of thing. Remember we already know Noaman is 4.5 level as he appealed down this fall after being bumped up to 4.5 this summer. Kent is better than Noaman. Cary will tell you that.
ReplyDeleteI think the only way for this issue to be resolved is to hear from one of the opposing players that retired. Does anybody know if they read this?
ReplyDeleteThat is fine. I would not mind hearing from them, but I think their actions have spoken for them.
ReplyDeleteNeither one of those guys are very good playing doubles. I played them both back in the spring with a 3.5 partner and we won 4 and 3 and I'm a below average 4.0.
ReplyDeleteI ran into Steve at the grocery store on Monday and notice that he had a bandage on his thumb. So I asked what happened and Kent said he had dislocated his thumb Saturday evening. Maybe that would explain the match on Sunday. I just hope that it will heal in time for the playoffs.
ReplyDeleteCary nice to see you are on a Marketing campaign to sway opinions with that last post and post at 8:25am, 10:36am, 11:40am, 11:47am. good Marketing Team Bazaan, but the facts are the facts. Tanking matches is poor sportsmanship. I agree with others. I hope Walters and other teams Kent tanked against file grievences so you guys get bounced.
ReplyDeleteI thought Obama ran a good campaign. Way to go Team Bazaan. I am on the "SPORTSMANSHIP FIRST" ticket. PLEASE FILE GRIEVENCES AGAINST TEAM BAZAAN.
ReplyDeletefile the grievance and then
ReplyDeleteGET A LIFE.
a bunch of holier than thou people out there it seems.
i am not in this fight, but reading it all from a clearer perspective, you guys sound like a bunch of teenage girls or even worse a bunch of cry babies.
This is an adult league, get over your bitching self. the points have been made about 700 times and nobody cares. wah.
I have known CB for a while and he is a good guy. I don't think he is being accused of tanking, so get off his back. If you don't like it - why don't you try and captain a team. keep your head up CB.
As one of the opponents in the HP/SP doubles match I will give you the facts and you can draw your own conclusions:
ReplyDeleteAs soon as I saw who our opponents were going to be at #3 doubles in a meaningless match I told my partner Don that Noaman and Steve would not be trying to win the match.
I was very surprised at how little they would be trying to win the match. Steve arrived late for the match and turned down our offer to warmup or even take serves. Noaman said he didn't need to take any serves either.
The first game Steve served he hit at least four serves very hard past the baseline. Needless to say he doubles faulted most of the game away. That is basically how he served the whole match. Don and I had to dodges serves at the baseline numerous times during the match. When Noaman served he at least made an attempt to appear he was trying. He spun a few serves in, but if we weren't missing enough balls he would throw in a soft second serve into the bottom of the net for a double fault.
When we would serve Steve would blast almost every ball as hard as he could usually missing by very large margins. If he happened to accidently get one in, Noaman would make sure he missed the next shot.
They would miss easy balls at the net by floating their volleys about four feet long. They played numerous serves that were close to a foot out. We hit numerous balls that Steve would have had to make little effort to get to and he would just quit playing the point. He made no effort to get to any ball not right to him.
I had told Don what was going on before the match, but we were both surprised by the extent. Don asked what we should do early in the match and I told him we needed to keep taking the games they were giving us and let the score reflect just how bad they had tanked this match.
Early in the second set I told Don of my idea of getting to match point and then retiring and he was ok with it. With Noaman serving at 1-5 30-40 I shook Don's hand and went over to Steve and Noaman's side to let them no they we were having to retire due to my bad back. I told he I couldn't possibly play won more point. I then congratulated him on beating two benchmark players. They were a little stunned to say the least. I also let him know that I have been playing league tennis a long time and that was the worst case of tanking I have ever seen and that it was BS.
During the match Steve had beening acting, and I use that term loosely, like he was having arm problems. It didn't appear to be bothering him as he blasted balls all over thew court. After our match I went up to watch Cary and Jim's doubles match. No sooner than we got off the court they opened a new can of balls and worked out for another 45 minutes. Both of their strokes had seemed to improve as if a miracle had occurred.
I have been fortunate to have been a part of many successful teams in 4.0 league tennis. I have been on a number of teams that have won city championships, Sectional, and have been to Nationals three times. That says more about the teams than myself. I am a high school tennis coach and see a lot of players and matches.
I know a tank when I see one and this was a 100% tank. If either player says otherwise they are lying. I hold the players more accountable than Cary. I have no idea if Cary knew what was going to happen in that match. I have to say it does look questionable when you have you two stud singles players playing line three doubles in a meaningless match. If Steve's arm had actually been injured there is no way he would have been in the lineup. He would have been resting it for the playoffs. It is ultimately the players who are responsible for tanking. Captains don't miss the shots and put out the sorry effort on the court.
So there are the facts concerning the SP/HP doubles match. I wasn't going to even get involved in the discussion, but when some were trying to say that this might have been a legitimate loss I felt I should set the record straight.
Cliff Lazarine
If you are not in this, then SHUT UP and stay out of it. This is about the moral decay of USTA tennis leagues. If you don't fight this and snuff it out it becomes acceptable. Just as Cary tries to point out. "Well so and so is doing it" Goes back to the 80/20 rule. 10% of the people are firm in their moral standing and won't compromise morals under any circumstances. 10% of people have no morals at all and will do anything. 80% of the people will go with what they believe is socially acceptable at the time and will follow masses on given circumstances. It is our job to raise the level of socially acceptable morality. In this case tennis sportsmanship and honest competition.
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU CLIFF. I KNEW THAT WAS THE CASE BY WHAT YOU DID. GOOD FOR YOU MAN. WHAT THEY DID IS BS AND THEY SHOULD BE DQED FOR IT.
ReplyDeleteCary, what do you have to say for yourself now? I hope Jim and others file grievences and you never captain a team again.
ReplyDeleteAgain aimed at ANON 1:26 pm
ReplyDeleteIf you are not in this, then SHUT UP and stay out of it. This is about the moral decay of USTA tennis leagues. If you don't fight this and snuff it out it becomes acceptable. Just as Cary tries to point out. "Well so and so is doing it" Goes back to the 80/20 rule. 10% of the people are firm in their moral standing and won't compromise morals under any circumstances. 10% of people have no morals at all and will do anything. 80% of the people will go with what they believe is socially acceptable at the time and will follow masses on given circumstances. It is our job to raise the level of socially acceptable morality. In this case tennis sportsmanship and honest competition.
The problem was not that they tanked the match. They just need to learn how to tank without being obvious. They apparently were so obvious the other team out foxed them in the end.
ReplyDeleteIf you are going to tank....at least be good at faking it. Just like your wife is.
That is what we should teach our kids?? What do you think this country will look like in 30 years with the kind of integrity?
ReplyDeleteI don't know what Cliff is talking about I was just on fire that day, they couldn't handle my game. If it wasn't for Cliffy we would have double bageled those losers.
ReplyDeleteCliff,
ReplyDeleteI am poster 11/4 @ 1:10pm. What you described at 1:34 is exactly the type match Noaman and Steve played against me and my partner (including the warm up (after Steve arrived late)). Our match was strictly for fun and pride so I doubt they would have a need to tank against us. Some guys just don't cut it on a doubles court.
You are an idiot if you really think that. Good players are good players. They may not be as good as they are in singles, but they are good enough not to go 6-1 5-1 down. Cliff is a HS Tennis coach and has been doing this a long time. He is a really good guy and has no reason to make this up.
ReplyDeleteYes I agree. There are doubles players and there are singles players. Few can play quality double and single!!!
ReplyDeleteI've played Cliff several times. There is no way he beats anyone that badly.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the prior poster was saying Cliff was making anything up or doubting he is a good guy. It sounds like he agrees with Cliff a 100%. It appears to me that Moaman and Steve should stick to singles though because they suck at doubles.
ReplyDeleteThe transition from Singles player to Doubles player is much easier. Good Doubles players have a much harder time playing singles than the reverse. Every strong singles player I have ever met can play doubles well. They may not chose to, but they can. Maybe not as good as they are in singles, but still good. This is not Kent & Noamans first doubles match either. Cary has been trying to hide them there for close to a year now.
ReplyDelete" I also let him know that I have been playing league tennis a long time and that was the worst case of tanking I have ever seen and that it was BS."
ReplyDeleteCliff's words above... I think Cliff was pretty clear about what he thought they were doing. He was not saying at all that they were bad doubles players. they were tanking the match.
When we played those two they looked clumsy on the court. Kind of like they didn't know who was supposed to get the ball.
ReplyDeleteI didn't realize Cliff Lazarine was the Cliff you guys were talking about. That gives this story much more credibility in my opinion. I know Noaman also and he doesn't seem like the type to do that but I don't know him that well. All I know is that Kent beat an above average 4.0 player 6-0, 6-0 a couple of years ago when he wasn't even playing regularly so for them to be down 6-1, 5-1 seems impossible. Serves and returns don't change from singles to doubles.
ReplyDeleteHey Cliff - Why did you "lie" and say that you had a hurt back and couldn't finish the match.
ReplyDelete2 things -
a. two wrongs don't make a right.
b. just bc you default match point, doesn't hurt their ratings. The computer looks at all the games played.
Seems to me, that you were being just as disengenious as they were. Like, hey these guys are tanking, so let's really get em back. Just play the game and move on. You accomplished nothing by quitting on match point - unless you just wanted to come on the blog and continue to trash these two guys.
If they did what you say they did, that was wrong. Just go to the USTA and file a grievance VS quitting match point and then airing it out on this blog.
Hey dumb*ss, the rules state that you must give a physical reason for retiring in a match. He let the 2 guys and their captain know what he thought about them tanking. He only described what happen on this blog after people kept talking about the score and requesting more information.
ReplyDeleteSaying you have a hurt back when you really don't? Where is the credibility with that? Is there anything else we shouldn't believe?
ReplyDeleteLove it that someone (i.e Cary or someone on his team) is trying to deflect from the real issue. Tanking is cheating, playing below level is cheating, cheating to win is NOT winning. Just because you don't get caught does not make it ok. Just happened that they got caught and are now trying to somehow justify it. Even if they hadn't gotten caught, it is still wrong.
ReplyDeleteCliff - do you also teach your HS players to hook back after someone hooks them. Seems to me that's what you did. You took matters into your own hands to fix the problem. You essentially one - upped them. No problem, just don't come on the blog bitching about the moral integrity of the game, when at the same time, explaing about how you faked an injury.
ReplyDeletethanks Mr. Obvios for telling us that Cheating is wrong. We all agree - if they tanked, cheated, whatever, you are right - it is wrong. No one is denying your obvios point.
ReplyDeleteis lying about an injury ? let's hear your commentary on that one, Mr. Obvios.
Defending the tanking is useless.
ReplyDeleteMy view is they didn't allow the match to be completed in protest of the tanking.
I applaud them for calling bullshit and making a point.
Not to mention that if the match had completed and was recorded as Cliff beating two good 4.0's with a score of 6-1 6-1, that would have resulted in a red flag on Cliff. It's not just a matter of those guys lowering their own ratings. They are also raising that of their opponents, whether they care or not. I would have done the same thing Cliff did in that situation.
ReplyDeleteOk, we all agree that tanking is bad. No argument.
ReplyDeleteSome of us think that lying is ok.
As for your point about needing to stop before the match was over. 6-1,5-1 is pretty much just as bad. The computer looks at differential when the score has ended. If you are beating someone 6-0 and 5-0, you are still pegged with an 11-0 differential - despite who wins. I know some will argue, but you are wasting your breath - I am 100% correct on this point.
If they were trying to avoid the win, they could have tanked right back in protest. They got to serve everyt other game as well. There would have been no lying, and we could have been arguing a whole new point this morning.
My only point is don't come on bashing people and hold yourself up to a higher moral standard, while defending a lying at the same time. You always go back to what you tell your kids and i doubt that you are teaching your kids that it is ok to lie if lied to - or hook a player after you get hooked.
As of now, the only fact is someone claimed an injury and they were able to play, period.
ReplyDeleteTo Nov 5 7:44 Nov 5 8:14 and Nov 5 8:57
ReplyDeleteYou are an idiot or idiots. The fact of the matter is that I do have a bad back (two ruptured discs) and bad wrist that causes me to wear a brace everytime I play and have been sick for the past month. None of these ailments are the reason that we stopped the match.
The only reason I was in the lineup that day was so that we would not have to default another line.
There were two reasons that we stopped the match and they have already be eluded to by others:
1. The main reason was to call BS on two players who where blatantly tanking and not allow them to benifit from their desire to cheat the system. The point of stopping was to let them know that we knew exactly what they were trying to do and it wasn't going to happen against us.
2.As was brought up earlier by a previous poster, beating Noaman and Steve 6-1,6-1 would have generated a bogus flag against Don and myself.
In response to the poster who wanted to know what I teach my players is this:
Before every match I tell them that I'm not concerned whether they win or lose. What I am concerned with that that they give everything they have on the court and win or lose they do it with class! The last thing I tell players before they go on the court is to have fun! You might want to write it down and stick it in you tennis bag.
I actually coach and have coached sons and daughters of Dallas league players. They could verify what I have said above.
To try and make it look like I am somehow as guilty as two cheaters makes you an idiot.
If we had a meeting with DTA, Sue Johnson Mauer or Tosha Smith, Steve, Noaman, Don and myself I am pretty sure they might see it differently than yourself. The Gilpins, Sue and Tosha have known me for a long time and would have no reason to doubt a word I said. The same is true for a lot of league players and captains in the Dallas area.
I am just guessing that those trying to deflect blame other than where it belongs are HP players who know that to of there players were caught blatantly cheating and are worried about repercussions down the line.
Like I said in my first post, I did not start this discussion on this blog. I was asked to explain what happened during the match and I did. What I told was 100% what happened. There was no dislocated thumb and no bad doubles players. What it was, was two players cheating the system by blatantly tanking a match.
Answering those who say that doubles and singles are completely different games I agree 100%. I see that everyday, but intentionally double faulting and missing almost every shot on purpose is not a good strategy for singles or doubles.
Cliff Lazarine
Is lying ok if someone sticks a gun in your face and asks you if you saw any police in the area. You know there is a police officer around the corner, but you tell the person with the gun a lie. The person with the gun is the one committing the crime. You are lying so that they get caught. Same thing here.
ReplyDeleteBazaan and Team committed the crime. Cliff lied so they would get caught. Please shut up now. thanks.
wow - now we have taken this to the level of comparing what these guys did to someone sticking a gun in your face. not even close.
ReplyDeleteIt's not ok to lie about an injury to default a match and you know it.
Write the letter to Jane or Tosha and ask them if that is what they recomend doing. Bad situation, but you handled it wrong Cliff.
By still coming on this blog and talking about what all you have done great in the tennis communinity etc etc adn what a high moral code you live and teach by is irrellevant. You should have handled it differently than trying to won up them and coming on this blog and bragging about what you did and how bad they are. I don't have a dog in this hunt, but it seems very full of yourself.
Please hear me, tanking is wrong - we agree.
Lying to one up someone is wrong also.
You guys are ridiculous. Cliff, you don't have to explain yourself to anybody here. I haven't heard any bragging from Cliff, just stating what happened. What were his options in that situation? I doubt they could have tanked harder than Kent and Noaman if they were double-faulting every other point. He made it clear to the other team that he wasn't quitting because of an injury, so where was the lying?
ReplyDeleteI think you guys are just upset that your top two players have been exposed.
Hey dummy. How do you rectify the situation then... Don't tell me you tank the match as well and play duece games evey game and have a 3hr match of 4 guys trying to lose 7-6 6-7 31-29. come on. that is idiotic. You do exactly what Cliff did. You play hard and retire at match point and let them and their captain know why. You then file a grievence with DTA. I hope Jim Walters has done that. It is the only way to handle it.
ReplyDeleteCliff - you never answered the questions - do you teach your students that it is ok to hook after you have been hooked.
ReplyDeleteHow are the two different.
Why did you not answer this question. Is it wrong to take matters in your own hands, even if a bit illegal or dishonest, if you have been wronged on the tennis court. I know what you teach your kids and you would NEVER teach your kids to do that.
By the way - no problem in not playing the match out of protest. You could have stopped a lot earlier in the match and made your point, but no, you wanted to be over-dramatic and really drive home your point. lying and coming up with an excuse like that - you actually made the situation worst.
I would love to ask TTA or a rules official the proper way to handle it. The way you handled it, but lying about an injury and going to have a beer with the other guys like everything is cool and then blasting away on the blog two days later - would not show up on the top 10 list of proper ways to handle this.
I attended my local Lions Club meeting this morning and ran in to Steve Kent there. He was in a WHEELCHAIR. So I asked him what happened and he said he had blood poisoning in his lower extremities from complications of a dislocated thumb. He also said he could be out of tennis for up to three months. NOW CLIFF, ARE YOU PROUD OF YOURSELF?
ReplyDeleteWhy waste the time playing the match. Default it when you see what is going on. Cliff and his partner are going to get credit for winning 11 games and losing 1 game.
ReplyDeleteIf that is what you are worried about circumventing, you made the matter worst by playing it out to match point.
Can someone verify this about Kent. If that is the case, I am severly pissed at Cliff for wasting out time with all of this crap. Cliff, I can not defend your lying anymore. The previos blogger is correct, intelligent, and good-looking, you should have defaulted the match as soon as the violation became apparrent.
ReplyDeleteIf you quit early it leaves everything up to interpretation. they would say.."no we were not tanking, we didn't warm up good"... Cliff and his partner joined USTA to play competitive matches. They joine to play tennis not quit after 2 or 3 games. He handled it the right way. He played hard. He played the tennis he came there to play. Then he made a statement that could serve as proof that they were tanking and not left to interpretation by many fools on this blog. Just make sure Jim and others they have tanked against this year file a grievence right away so they can be bumped from DCC.
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question, no I do not teach my players to hook a player back after they have been hooked. I tell them to give their opponent the benifit of the doubt the first time and then request an official if one is present if the hooking continues.
ReplyDeleteThat has zero to do with this situation. I told them face to face the reason we were retiring was to keep them from benifiting from their blatant tanking. There was no doubt in either Steve or Noaman's mind why the match was stopped. When you retire from a match there has to be a reason shown. Opponents were cheating the league and league players by tanking is not an option yet.
That you would even try to make the case you are making shows that you are as big an idiot as they were.
Cliff
Wow. What a mess.
ReplyDeleteI sure hope all these anons saying Cliff was wrong to default are one person. Surely there can't be that many separate idiots on one blog.
I have no idea who Cliff is but he handled it just fine. The fact that Cary is now playing dumb and ignoring the issue speaks volumes.
I love ya Cliff and really appreciate you clarifying everything to these fools. I just sent and email to Jim to make sure that he files a grievance for that match. You did the right thing. You know it. Noaman and Kent know it. Most intelligent people on this blog know it.
ReplyDeleteMy bad Cliff - this is all one big misunderstanding.
ReplyDeleteI took you at your word when you said this on the blog yesterday:
"""Early in the second set I told Don of my idea of getting to match point and then retiring and he was ok with it. With Noaman serving at 1-5 30-40 I shook Don's hand and went over to Steve and Noaman's side to let them no they we were having to retire due to my bad back. I told he I couldn't possibly play won more point. """
Were you telling the truth yesterday when you typed this or today. I am having a hard time keeping up.
Also, just now when you say :
"When you retire from a match there has to be a reason shown. Opponents were cheating the league and league players by tanking is not an option yet."
so the rule book did not have a category for what was going on, so you lied and made one up.
Cliff - you got tanked against - it sucks and it is wrong. I just think that you handled it wrong. When i give my opinion, you call me a dummy or idiot. I just think you like to be in control and for no one to be able to get on over on you. Let it go - report them - they were wrong - whatever - you just should not have lied.
From one anon to another anon (the one who just called me an idiot and a dummy)- we must stick together in this and not call each other names. We are anons and must remain united as such, leave the name calling to Cliff.
ReplyDeleteYou do have to admit, i have shifted the focus a bit. Sorry, but it had to be done - those guys were taking a beating. Now back to reality.
Tankers -you suck and shall be punished severly.
NO matter how bad Cliff LIES, that doesn't give you the right to tank and destroy the moral integrity of the great game of tennis.
Dummy and Idiot
I ask her, lovingly, to use better grammer when adressing me.
ReplyDeleteSomething we can agree on. This is a great game and we should do everything we can to protect the integrity of the sport!!!
ReplyDeleteWith the wife deal. Just depends how hot she looks at the time. I might have to forgo my hang up on grammar is she looks hot!
ReplyDeletehe was not talking to you anon, he was talking to me.
ReplyDeleteidiot and dummy anon
i didn' hear you coming to my defense with clever comments like that when they were calling me names.
What a big mistake by Cary and crew. Dumb and poor sportsmanship. Is Cary going to have to change his name to "Unlucky Blunder" because of this??
ReplyDeleteI hope all 3 get DQed for DCC for this. Tanking cannot be allowed. Why anyone would want to tank a match to stay at a lower level is crazy to me. It is one thing to play hard and win within reason to avoid any possibility of getting DQed, but to LOSE when you know you are better is crazy. That is just cheating the system.
its easy - they tanked so they could stay at the level that they are at and compete at sectionals. they don't enjoy it any more than cliff does. playing cliff is a bore to them as well.
ReplyDeletethe price you have to pay if you want to play and compete at sectionals with guys the same skill level.
i am certain that these guys would fit right in at sectionals at the level they are playing at. Cliff would not.
does not make it right, but stating the facts jack. it's the system and if you don't like it - don't play. people are going to continue to manipulate the system. don't sign up - that would be a good sign of protest - if all of us morally rich people would just not sign up.
there is never and excuse for purposely losing. I don't like the idea of managing a score and still winning to avoid DQ, but can accept that it happens some. but losing on purpose to stay at a level is wrong.
ReplyDeleteSo the cheaters win?? That is a good philosophy. Let's just quit and not play in USTA leagues. How about we change the culture of USTA Tennis leagues and police ourselves and show leadership. Starting at the Captain level. Encourage your players to bring it every time they step on the court. At the very least challenge your players to win every set.
ReplyDeleteWhat if Cliffs back and wrist was really hurting when he played Steve and Noaman and he was the one getting beat...bad? How would Cliff like it if Steve and Noaman walked off the court at match point and then aired their incorrect opinions on the blog about Cliff tanking the match? It's one thing to have an opinion but its another to slander someone. Something stinks here and it aint Steve or Noaman.
ReplyDeleteWhat has been reported on this blog concerning the match are 100% facts, no opinions. There is NO gray area. They were tanking. It is what it is. I wonder why we haven't heard from Cary, Steve or Noaman to tell their side? I'm sure it's because they know it's better to lay low and hope everthing blows over after this blog drops to the next page.
ReplyDeleteCliff
Funny. The picture is becoming clearer now. You tell opponets that you have an injury and walk off the court at match point. Then admit that was boggus. Then you say it was all because of a potential red flag situation against yourself that you wanted to avoid. Now I see what you are trying to say? You are placing blame on two innocent and appearantly very nice guys for your own good allthewhile dropping names of USTA officals that "know you" in an attempt to BULLY Steve and Noaman.
ReplyDeleteNov 5 3:07
ReplyDeleteI think I have participated in three more sectionals this year alone than Steve or Noaman have EVER been to. Try another argument. I never said they were good, I just said they were cheats.
Cliff
Cliff @ 3:55,
ReplyDeleteI don't think Cary, Steve or Noaman reads the blog very much because they are constantly working on new threads.
maybe what stinks is coming from that naughty region of your wifes body. is she the one with bad grammar as well?
ReplyDeleteCliff is a good guy. Did things exactly right. the other guys did a lousy job tanking and should have faked it better. sounds like they did'nt even try.
Oh, you have been to three more sectionals this year.....I get it, I really do get it, you thought that walking off the court wouldn't show on your record because you are affaid of being bumped up. I see. MAYBE IT IS YOU WHO IS PLAYING OUT OF LEVEL!!!
ReplyDeleteBTW, tanking is an opinion. No hard facts to present. Just your opinion.
Cliff,
ReplyDeleteNo need to defend yourself anymore. These guys got caught blatantly tanking and their little friends are just trying to deflect. Move on.
Gene
Cary, you need to address the issue on this blog.
ReplyDeleteI asked Tosha what Cliff and Don should have done. Her response didn't answer the question. So, if I file a grievance, and I am not a filing kind of guy, it would depend on them confessing. I think that when something like this happens, you send the story in. If they get enough stories about individuals or captains, they might do something. In the end, they can't police intent on the court. It is up to the captains to police their teams.
ReplyDeleteI have been on both ends. I had a fair player unfairly DQd at sectionals who played hard at every match and then I had a computer rated ringer, (Gene) who I successfully hid by playing few matches when he didn't have to dominate. Which is worse depends on which end you are on. Jim
Hi Jim,
I will go in and take a look at their match play but don’t know if anything can be done at this time since these things are hard to prove. I appreciate you letting me know and this is something that we are aware of that happens and we have been discussing what can be done in situations such as this.
Thanks,
Tosha Smith
NTRP Coordinator
USTA Texas Section
Cary,
ReplyDeleteNo need to defend yourself on this matter. These guys stories got exposed and now their little friends want them to move on. I trust you can forgive them-please.
OK Cary, I guess since Noaman and Steve are playing so bad now that you won't put them in the playoffs. Anybody who is losing 6-1, 5-1 at line 3 doubles should not be good enough to make your playoff lineup right? Or will their injuries and skill levels suddenly make a miraculous recovery just in time for the playoffs?
ReplyDelete4.0 FLIGHTS AND SCHEDULES ARE OUT FOR DCC.
ReplyDeleteRED FLIGHT
BAZAAN, OAK CREEK, LAKES, LIFETIME/HILL
BLUE FLIGHT
IS NOT ON SITE YET.
We all get the matchup we wanted. HP JV/Bazaan vs Lifetime/Hill.
ReplyDeleteSaturday Nov 22nd 10am at Broookhaven.
the anon or anons who are defending these douche bags are obviously on HP's team. The real justice will come when they get their butt's handed to them at DCC by the lakes and lifetime. Quit defending those guys, you only make your team look worse Cary
ReplyDeleteYou and I can make a difference. Will you not join me and let's move on together?
ReplyDeleteTime for a new thread...what are the head to head odds for each team in the playoffs? Who is the favorite to win it all?
ReplyDeleteTime for a new thread...what are the head to head odds for each team in the playoffs? Who is the favorite to win it all?
ReplyDeleteWhat about listing the top 8 for each team and anyone else on the team who may be a "dark" horse? Remember some teams may have hidden a few players or even "tanked" a match or two.
ReplyDeleteCLIFF, Congadulations for what you did. In becoming a new Captain of of a USTA league team I would expect all of my teams players to play as hard as they can every time we step on the court. Anything else would be unexceptable. I would never ask a player to tank games, sets,points to lessen the outcome of a match.I personally if asked by a Captain of a team to do any of these things would lose respect for that person and not play for him again. My team may not win all the time but we give an all out effort. I am proud to say we have never had any self rated ringers on any of teams and this fall season is the 1st time we have come up a bit short of makink the playoffs.Tennis is a Great game so lets try to keep it that way without all the CHEATING that goes on. I think during this fall season on 4-5 players were playing out of level and they know who they are.It must be a great feeling af acomplishment to beat the crap out of lesser players.
ReplyDeleteEd,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the support. I have always known you to be a great competitor and sportsman and I wish your team well!
Cliff
Cliff - Congratulations for what you did. Of course you did the right thing.
ReplyDeleteThe anti Cliff's are trying disparately to create a lot of spin to deflect the criticism elsewhere.
I am retiring off the rooting team. Now I know why they won all their matches 3-2. I am very saddened by what I have just read. I really liked rooting for you guys too.
ReplyDeleteBrian Morrison (Bee-Moe)
Great!!! Maybe you three guys can meet somewhere and hug one another.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you and your cheating team mates can take turns tanking matches to each other
ReplyDeleteWhat 3 guys are you talking about????
ReplyDelete???
ReplyDeleteBMo, Bazann's 24th Player, and Brian Morrison. Those 3.
ReplyDeleteOk it is time for a new thread talking about 4.0 Match-ups for DCC.
ReplyDeleteIt has been confirmed that Cary, Kent, and Noaman are cheaters that should be DQed for DCC. Jim has filed a grievance. Hopefully the other captains they tanked against have too and some action will be taken against Team Bazaan.
Now time for New Thread. Thanks.
No need for a new thread 4.0 women do not like to talk about match ups. They like to bitch, screech and whine about better players and teams.
ReplyDeleteYes I agree. I see a correlation between the bitching in the spring 3.5 stuff and the bitching on 4.0 in the fall. I know who got bumped up too. Something is Fishy!!!
ReplyDeleteHello everyone. I'm not sure if anyone is still reading this thread but I just learned last night that this had become a hot topic of discussion so I thought I would take this time to defend myself.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I would like to apologize to Cliff and Don if they felt that we were cheating and wasting their time. I played that doubles match competatively, and while I can't speak for anyone else because that wouldn't be genuine, I know I tried and put forth a good effort.
Second, if you look at my league play doubles results they are less than impressive. Prior to this match, I have only played two league doubles matches at 4.0, losing last Fall and losing this Spring. I am not a doubles player and that's why I don't play doubles at tournaments. I probably would have played singles that Sunday but Springpark only put out one singles player so I told Cary I would play doubles so another player could get in a match of singles.
In regards to the specific allegations in the match:
First, the reason I didn't take any serves to begin the match is because I had already warmed up with my team prior to the match and didn't feel like taking more practice serves in the heat.
Second, the reason I missed so many easy volleys is becuase I am terrible at net. If you have played against me, or ask anyone who has played against me, you'll know two things. First, I don't come to net unless I am absolutely forced too. Second, I hate playing at net so much that I don't even take volleys during warm up. So when i'm at net, especially when playing doubles, i'm likely to miss easy volleys badly, and miss difficult volleys easily.
Third, the reason I was throwing in low paced second serves is because I have an awful second serve. Unless i'm having a really good service day, i'm likely to throw in about 3-4 double faults a set (this can be confirmed by anyone who has played against me, especially recently). As a result, sometimes I choose to avoid throwing in a double by hitting a low pace second serve. I did this a few times in the doubles match. I also double faulted quite a bit, but I disagree that they were serves that went to the bottom of the net. Most of my double faults were on second serves that hit the tap. Trust me, i'm not precise enough on my serve to intentionally double fault by hitting the tape. Lastly, the two games we won were on my serve.
Fourth, in the match I didn't miss a whole lot of groundstrokes and the ones I did miss were either barely out, or were on first serve service returns. If I was really "throwing" the match I would have missed a lot more groundstrokes, but I wasn't nor was I allegdly hitting the fence with any of my shots.
Fifth, after the match Steven and I did play but we did not play with new balls nor did we play for 45 minutes. I told Steven I would hit with him after the match because he wanted to see how his arm would hold up hitting a lot of balls (he was wearing a brace the whole match to deal with his tennis elbow). We hit for about 15 minutes before I left, and i'm not sure what, if anything, happened after that.
Sixth, it was apparent to me that Steven was having elbow/arm trouble throughout the match. Like I mentioned before, he was wearing a brace and did not appear at full strength.
Seventh, as far as being jerks or anything else on the court, I disagree with that assesment. I thanked Cliff between games when he handed me the balls, I congratuled them when they made a good shot, and I never approached them rudely or in disdain or attempted to intentionally upset them in any way.
Lastly, Once again I apologize to Cliff and Dan if they feel like I was wasting their time but that was not my intention. I realize tanking matches is a hot topic in league tennis and I can see why a lot of people would be upset after seeing the strange score and the appearance of impropriety.
However, no one was more surprised than I was when Cliff and Dan defaulted because I had no idea they felt like we were actually throwing the match (Cliff must echo my obvious surprise becuase he mentioned in his previous post that he could tell we were shocked when they retired).
Sorry to upset so many people, but it was not my intention, i'm just bad at doubles.
Noaman
Noaman,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I doubt last night was the first time you heard about your "match" being talked about on this blog.
Secondly, if you are such a bad doubles player why were you even in the lineup? It has been reported that there were four other HP players practicing on court at SP while you were tanking your match. Why wouldn't two of them been playing line three doubles in a meaningless line three doubles match. Is Cary thinking about using you and Steve in doubles in the DCC? I am betting NOT!
If you game is as pathetic as you make it out to be, how do you explain your #38 ranking in 4.5 singles? I can agree that you are probably a much better singles player than doubles, but you can not win tough singles matches through consistency and then "lose" a match 1-6,1-5 because you can not seem to put a ball in the court.
If Steve had a "bad" arm why was he in the match when there were other HP players at SP who could have played? Why wouldn't Cary want him to sit out to try and get his arm better for the DDC? It was reported that Steve was blasting balls all over the place. Is that true? It seems like if you had a hurt arm you might try to save a little wear and tear on your arm.
I urge everyone to look at the loses that you and Steve have while on Cary's team. Everytime one or both of you have lost the team has won 3-2. While not proof of any wrong doing it sure shows a pattern.
I have known Cliff a long time and he would not have retired from the match unless he was positive that the match was being tanked. If he says it was a blatant tank it was a tank.
Noaman, I know you are just trying to do damage control, but continuing to deny that your match was a tank just makes you look worse.
Just an FYI I played Noaman in the singles for the ladder challenge. Unfortunately, I was not feeling well that day but played anyway. Noaman is quite and never came to net for warm up and did not serve much at warm up. During the match his strength is a baseline drive off his backhand and up the line. He never came to net unless I hit a drop shot. He is not telling any lies. It does add up and makes more sense to me than the so called tank job. I knew it was not a tank job because doubles does not suit Noeman's style of play. It actually removes his strengths!
ReplyDeleteSo Snotjock,
ReplyDeleteThe question remains, if Noaman sucks so bad in doubles why is he in the lineup?
If he wanted a loss he could have just played with Bazan and it might looked better. The only reason to stick your two best singles players, who by most accounts, can not play doubles is so they can both get a loss. It just so happens they tanked to get this loss and got caught. Trying to justify it just makes you look as stupid as them!
ReplyDelete"During the match his strength is a baseline drive off his backhand and up the line"
ReplyDeleteLOL. If that's what you think his strength is then you need to pay attention to your opponent a little better. The backhand is definitely not his strength.
Noaman Tip #1
ReplyDeleteSounds like if you hit Noaman anything short of the baseline, not to his backhand you can just set your racket down on the court. It will be much too difficult for him to get it back.
“First of all, I doubt last night was the first time you heard about your "match" being talked about on this blog.”
ReplyDelete-Actually it was. I had an important trial on Wednesday I had to prepare for all week so I did not play tennis with anyone or meet with my team until Thursday evening when Kirby first told me about what was being written on the blog. Unfortunately tennis is not my life, I really wish it was, but it’s not. I only view the blog a few times a month and would not have viewed it for a while had I not heard that I was being talked about negatively so much.
“Secondly, if you are such a bad doubles player why were you even in the lineup?”
-That’s not up to me. I wanted to play that weekend because I hadn’t played in the previous couple matches so Cary put me in at doubles. If you read my previous post you’ll see why I didn’t play singles. Cary probably decided to play me at line three so I could get some more practice since I hadn’t been playing a lot lately.
“If you game is as pathetic as you make it out to be, how do you explain your #38 ranking in 4.5 singles? I can agree that you are probably a much better singles player than doubles, but you can not win tough singles matches through consistency and then "lose" a match 1-6,1-5 because you can not seem to put a ball in the court.”
-I don’t think my game is pathetic, I’m just aware of my strengths and weaknesses and volleying is not one of my strengths. As far as losing the match so badly, Cliff and Don are good doubles players. A lot has been made about Steven and I losing a line #3 doubles match so badly but I think that is somewhat of a misrepresentation. Cliff and Don play 4.5 doubles and do relatively well and would most certainly play line #1 doubles on most 4.0 teams. So I don’t think the line of doubles should be considered when factoring in the general strength and ability of the doubles team. Also, I disagree with the statement of not being able to put a ball in the court. The vast majority of the balls I hit in that doubles match were good, and I was also hitting winners. The shots I did miss were volleys and difficult service returns, shots that a lot of players routinely miss.
“If Steve had a "bad" arm why was he in the match when there were other HP players at SP who could have played? Why wouldn't Cary want him to sit out to try and get his arm better for the DDC? It was reported that Steve was blasting balls all over the place. Is that true? It seems like if you had a hurt arm you might try to save a little wear and tear on your arm.”
- Your rhetorical question is asking me to speculate. I’m not Steven, and I am not Cary and I can’t speak for either them. All I can say is that I know Steven was injured, but if you disagree with that or Cary’s lineup, that’s not something you should be attempting to take up with me.
“I urge everyone to look at the loses that you and Steve have while on Cary's team. Everytime one or both of you have lost the team has won 3-2. While not proof of any wrong doing it sure shows a pattern.”
-I’ve only lost one time this year and it was in doubles in a third set tiebreaker against the Village. If you talk to the doubles team we played that afternoon they’ll tell you I was not happy about losing that match.
“I have known Cliff a long time and he would not have retired from the match unless he was positive that the match was being tanked. If he says it was a blatant tank it was a tank.”
- I respect your relationship with Cliff and I’m not attempting to question your or his integrity, as you have attempted to question mine, anonymously, but I can only tell you how I played from my side and you can take that for what its worth.
“Noaman, I know you are just trying to do damage control, but continuing to deny that your match was a tank just makes you look worse.”
-You’re right I am trying to do damage control because I think I have a right to defend myself. If you think me trying to defend myself makes me look worse, that’s fine, but I don’t appreciate being unjustly slandered and would rather defend myself then be called all kinds of nasty things by anonymous posters.
I am going to give Noaman the benefit of the doubt because I know him and I do respect somebody who is willing to defend themselves. I also believe it was Cary's intent to have Noaman and Steve lose to protect their ratings and I'm not sure there is anything wrong with that. If you guys entered the match trying to win, you did nothing wrong. We have heard from Noaman that he was giving maximum effort. I don't know Steve but something tells me he wasn't. Only speculation but I will wait to find out.
ReplyDeleteNoaman,
ReplyDeleteI tried to tell these morons about your doubles play. Remember our match back in the spring?
Randy
You can't get mad at him for where his captain put him. Blame Cary for that. Previous post defending Noaman was mine also.
ReplyDeleteCorey,
ReplyDeleteI think you are exactly right. If a captain puts two singles players in a doubles match "hoping" they will lose to protect their rating, that is fine as long as the TWO players put out an honest effort. If they play the match with NO intention of winning the match, "tanking", that is where there is a problem.
Time to let it go...what makes you think cheaters aren't liars? There is no way to prove intent therefore you might as well argue with the wall. At least you would know that if you hit a ball at it, it would come back...maybe
ReplyDeleteNov 7th 1:16 anon poster Just because I voiced my thoughts about Noeman does not mean I am justifying tanking..I just do not think he actuually tanked his match. Have you played Noeman? Calling me stupid? Please! Grow up! Act like a man..quit your bitching...and if they did tank..how is that going to affect you when you suck anyway? Please come back with something clever.
ReplyDeleteAnon Nov 8 9:27
ReplyDeleteI think that was the point that was being made, but you are right, it's time to move on...
Snotjock, I promise to come up with something clever when you do. Fortunately, as hard as you will try, you will give me plenty of time to think something up.
ReplyDeleteWe know Noaman and Steven tanked but it is not like we have a signed confession.
Noaman,
ReplyDelete1. You are a lawyer and thus we don't believe anything you say.
2. You should be embarrased for tanking.
3. Since you are a lawyer, by default you must be a left winged Obama supporter. Get a life and stop chasing ambulances.
4. Get an honorable occupation, go to liars anonymous for rehab.
5. Two things the USA has way too many of; Lawyers and tankers, and you are the poster child for both.
Noaman??? Great guy!!! Have you even meet the man?
ReplyDelete